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EXCLUSIVE: Cronin lifts veil on new draft expropriation law

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,700
#82
And if you're not successful, appeal to higher court etc or is the verdict final?
SCA then.

That's pretty much what happens in any expropriation (with or without compensation) by the way. EWC doesn't create that situation.
 

rietrot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
9,257
#83
Changing goal posts? Expropriating 20 unused properties in Joburg won't betray the trust of most. Maybe yours, not mine.



The rationality of economic agents is a long time discussed and debated topic in economics, long before Malema and amongst the capitalist theoricians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_agent
https://web.stanford.edu/~hammond/ratEcon.pdf



China still has the laws against land speculation, they have never been lifted. France does too. I don't see any of these two countries getting being untrustworthy for investors. But it's just me again.
The entity with the most unused property is still government. It's rather silly to go after speculators when government sits on thousands of hectares of undeveloped prime land.
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,700
#84
The entity with the most unused property is still government. It's rather silly to go after speculators when government sits on thousands of hectares of undeveloped prime land.
That's exactly the plan...

Can you read please? It's 19 posts before, not 5 pages...

Municipalities and state-owned companies must expropriate and release unused land for housing the country's urban, landless poor, President Cyril Ramaphosa said on Wednesday.

"Municipalities and state-owned enterprises need to release unused land and service sites for housing so that our people must have houses, so that they also do not resort to self-help measures through the illegal occupation of land," Ramaphosa said during the presidency budget speech in the National Assembly.
https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...-draft-expropriation-law.976773/post-22117507

It's actually tiring and desperating that the guys the most up in arms against EWC can't even decently follow the news about it. You're the second one in 30min.
 

Temujin

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
3,570
#85
wrong again.

the law is forbidden to develop country parks. most of the unused lands are situated in country parks.

that is NO FEE to "renew" the lease agreement in hong kong. try again.
:rolleyes: I honestly couldn't be bothered. But here goes anyway. HK gov keep 'available for use' land tiny, forcing developers into bidding frenzy when a 'plot' opens up, pushing the prices through the roof. The result, a room the size of a toilet stale(cage home) costing more than people earn in a life time. Its all gov. Nothing to do with unavailable land etc

https://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/facts.htm
  • Total area: 1 106.34square kilometres
  • Land developed: less than 25%
  • Country parks and nature reserves: 40%
The land is available, gov just doesn't release it cos lease prices drop, supply/demand
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,700
#87
:rolleyes: I honestly couldn't be bothered. But here goes anyway. HK gov keep 'available for use' land tiny, forcing developers into bidding frenzy when a 'plot' opens up, pushing the prices through the roof. The result, a room the size of a toilet stale(cage home) costing more than people earn in a life time. Its all gov. Nothing to do with unavailable land etc

https://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/facts.htm
  • Total area: 1 106.34square kilometres
  • Land developed: less than 25%
  • Country parks and nature reserves: 40%
The land is available, gov just doesn't release it cos lease prices drop, supply/demand
I'm still wondering. What has your rambling about HK to do with EWC in South Africa? :whistling:
 

Temujin

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
3,570
#89
I'm still wondering. What has your rambling about HK to do with EWC in South Africa? :whistling:
My ramblings? :ROFL: DreamKing brought it up as 'example' and we're discussing it, he says its small living cos lands not used by people, I'm saying its gov, as they own land and only lease small bits at a time to keep prices skyhigh

Get back in your hole:p
 

garp

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
6,114
#92
Ah namecalling when you have no arguments...

I vote conservative but thanks for the assumption dear Suitlander.

So France or NYC are out of modern civilization?

You just don't have a clue of what's happening, what are the targets and why and can't even keep yourselves informed properly as all of you guys screaming and rambling on your own premade conceptions and assumptions (but too coward and afraid to leave the country nonetheless).

PS: Personnally, I'm fully against expropriation without compensation, genius. I've said it 100 times. I'm also against land speculation.
And I don't think you really have a clue about this country, to be honest, or about the reasons why any of this is happening. I suspect you think you do, and you're well meaning, and that your ideology that people should not have unfettered right to property, even if only to speculate, is beneficial to society, but actually it's horribly misguided and damaging.

There is not much point in arguing with the obtuse, anyway. And I'm only one voice of dissent swimming against a tsunami of populist rage. I won't change anything. I can, however, see as clear as daylight the impending humanitarian disaster that is coming for us if we continue on this trajectory and it will be the useful idiots who were apologists for these disastrous policies that will have to do all the explaining in years to come. Not me.

Notice how quickly the dialogue has already moved from merely expropriating farms to now unused buildings and commercial and speculative property.
 

DreamKing

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
8,109
#94
:rolleyes: I honestly couldn't be bothered. But here goes anyway. HK gov keep 'available for use' land tiny, forcing developers into bidding frenzy when a 'plot' opens up, pushing the prices through the roof. The result, a room the size of a toilet stale(cage home) costing more than people earn in a life time. Its all gov. Nothing to do with unavailable land etc

https://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/facts.htm
  • Total area: 1 106.34square kilometres
  • Land developed: less than 25%
  • Country parks and nature reserves: 40%
The land is available, gov just doesn't release it cos lease prices drop, supply/demand
NO LAND can sell to the person for speculative investment like what you said.
so that is why I said that is a classic example for speculative investment.

the land is not produced in a factory, you can't "make" lands available to everyone. understand?
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,700
#96
And I don't think you really have a clue about this country, to be honest, or about the reasons why any of this is happening. I suspect you think you do, and you're well meaning, and that your ideology that people should not have unfettered right to property, even if only to speculate, is beneficial to society, but actually it's horribly misguided and damaging.

There is not much point in arguing with the obtuse, anyway. And I'm only one voice of dissent swimming against a tsunami of populist rage. I won't change anything. I can, however, see as clear as daylight the impending humanitarian disaster that is coming for us if we continue on this trajectory and it will be the useful idiots who were apologists for these disastrous policies that will have to do all the explaining in years to come. Not me.

Notice how quickly the dialogue has already moved from merely expropriating farms to now unused buildings and commercial and speculative property.
1. That's what you can't fathom about me, I don't have an ideology. I don't think the same solutions are good everywhere, I see local issues and local solutions.

2. I don't have a clue, yet I got the plan from ANC people, confirmed by various factions and groups of interests arounf them. I guess they don't have a clue about their own plans...

3. No right to property is unfetterred anywhere in the world, not even in the US. Do you think these highways, railways, airports were built on virgin unowned land? You're seriously an idiot if you do.

4. I repeat, I'm against EWC... But you can't fathom that I can have a complex thinking vs your binary good/bad vision (that's typical of most white South Africans to be honest, put big categories on everything and everybody instead of seeing nuances, you were really brainwashed).

5. I repeat again, I'm against EWC...

6. I don't support or am an apologist for any policy, I am against EWC. I merely understand why it's useful for CR, doesn't mean I'm for it.

7. CR's speeches have been consistently about unused land, never specifically about farms. You mix what he said with the noise around him, go double check. https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/n...c-to-change-constitution-to-expropriate-land/
 
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DreamKing

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
8,109
#99
My ramblings? :ROFL: DreamKing brought it up as 'example' and we're discussing it, he says its small living cos lands not used by people, I'm saying its gov, as they own land and only lease small bits at a time to keep prices skyhigh

Get back in your hole:p
I don't understand what you are saying.
 

garp

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
6,114
1. That's what you can't fathom about me, I don't have an ideology. I don't think the same solutions are good everywhere, I see local issues and local solutions.

2. I don't have a clue, yet I got the plan from ANC people, confirmed by various factions and groups of interests arounf them. I guess they don't have a clue about their own plans...

3. No right to property is unfetterred anywhere in the world, not even in the US. Do you think these highways, railways, airports were built on virgin unowned land? You're seriously an idiot if you do.

4. I repeat, I'm against EWC... But you can't fathom that I can have a complex thinking vs your binary good/bad vision (that's typical of most white South Africans to be honest, put big categories on everything and everybody instead of seeing nuances, you were really brainwashed).

5. I repeat again, I'm against EWC...

6. I don't support or am an apologist for any policy, I am against EWC. I merely understand why it's useful for CR, doesn't mean I'm for it.

7. CR's speeches have been consistently about unused land, never specifically about farms. You mix what he said with the noise around him, go double check. https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/n...c-to-change-constitution-to-expropriate-land/
You say you don't have an ideology, and are even conservative leaning, but you characterize property owners in Sandton as lazy, polluting speculators who are damaging society. Pull the other one, mate.
 
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