F1 - 2018 season discussion

[satanboy]

I don't know which Dave is biggest of, a Hamilton fan ...

What?

 

[thestaggy]

Thoughts?

Statistically yes, but for me the article doesn't paint the full picture in some of the comparisons.

Schumacher won 72 races with Ferrari between 1996 and 2006. Hamilton has won 50 with Mercedes in less than six seasons.

Compare the cars.

1996 - 1999: The Ferrari was either awful (1996) or second best (1997 - 1999) during this period.

2000 - 2004: Michael finally gets the cream of the crop and yet the Ferrari win rate in this period - 67.06% - is lower than Mercedes' hybrid era (2014 - present) win rate of 75%.

2005: The Ferrari, or more specifically Bridgestone, were awful that season. Michelin-shod cars annihilated their rivals as Ferrari crashed to third in the championship.

2006: Turn around season as Michael made one final title challenge.

Hamilton has had one season (2013) with Mercedes where it wasn't the best car on the grid. Michael spent way more time in an inferior Ferrari than a dominant one and many of his title winners were not untouchable. Mika took Michael all the way to the penultimate round in 2000 and in 2003 it went to the penultimate round as well with the Williams-BMW being considered the superior car for most of the season.

Hamilton has also matched or beaten Schumacher at key stages of his career, the German taking his first title with Benetton aged 25 whereas the Briton opened his account at McLaren as a 23-year-old.

On closer inspection;

Michael was driving a Benetton-Ford against all-conquering Honda- and Renault-powered McLarens and Williamses during his formative years in the sport. He had to wait until his 3rd full season in F1 before he got a championship contender otherwise it was best of the rest for him.

Hamilton walked in to a title contending McLaren in 2007 and again had a title challenger at his disposal in 2008.

Hamilton is good, likely the greatest of his generation (a case can be made for Alonso), but for me not the greatest I have seen nor will he ever be better than Michael in my eyes for the above reasons. He's had an incredibly fortunate career in terms of walking in to a championship winner his rookie season and in recent years been at the wheel of the most dominant car I have ever seen.

 

[Dave]

I don't know which Dave is biggest of, a Hamilton fan or a Vettel hater.... lol, you need to relax dude, enjoy the moment HAM is owning...

Everyone saying SEB had to wait for max to pit is the ones calling for boring races... there was a gap and he went for it.... he passed like 7 cars in that same corner... To ride for 20 odd laps behind a driver to wait for a pit stop? seriously?

Piss off, I can hate on Vettel all I like...

 

[Hamster]

/snip

Hamilton got into that "winning" seat from the get go because of skill and not luck. When they show his laps side by side to the others you can clearly see he smoother and way more clever when it comes to choosing racing lines depending on the situation.

Michael's car maybe wasn't the best all the time but most of the time it was top 3 and a good couple of years it was the best car there. They also had more play room with strategy in the likes of refueling and never had DRS "to encourage overtaking".

Say what you want, but Hamilton is up there.

So who was/is the best of all time: Schumacher, Hamilton, Clark, Fangio, Senna (if you really think he belongs in the list in which case you have to add Alonso).

Impossible to tell.

 

[Enzo Matrix]

Hamilton got into that "winning" seat from the get go because of skill and not luck. When they show his laps side by side to the others you can clearly see he smoother and way more clever when it comes to choosing racing lines depending on the situation.

Michael's car maybe wasn't the best all the time but most of the time it was top 3 and a good couple of years it was the best car there. They also had more play room with strategy in the likes of refueling and never had DRS "to encourage overtaking".

Say what you want, but Hamilton is up there.

So who was/is the best of all time: Schumacher, Hamilton, Clark, Fangio, Senna (if you really think he belongs in the list in which case you have to add Alonso).

Impossible to tell.

Lewis is top 3 for me. He is rock solid 99.9% of the time. He always seems to win the wheel to wheel dices. That was the case with Rosberg, and now with Seb.

I cant stand Hamilton, but he is an exceptional F1 driver

 

[CUDlybunny]

Lewis is top 3 for me. He is rock solid 99.9% of the time. He always seems to win the wheel to wheel dices. That was the case with Rosberg, and now with Seb.

I cant stand Hamilton, but he is an exceptional F1 driver

Spot on. Great at overtaking even when he's far down the field and that's been the case throughout his career.

 

[UrBaN963]

Picture this:

Mercedes build 10 identical cars. You get to choose the drivers, who then do a full race at Spa. Who do you put in there?

For me (in no particular order)
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Hakkinen
6. Max Verstappen
7. Senna
8. Clark
9. Fangio
10. Laude

 

[satanboy]

Piss off, I can hate on Vettel all I like...

The important question is:
Do you love Hamilton?

 

[satanboy]

Picture this:

Mercedes build 10 identical cars. You get to choose the drivers, who then do a full race at Spa. Who do you put in there?

For me (in no particular order)
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Hakkinen
6. Max Verstappen
7. Senna
8. Clark
9. Fangio
10. Laude

Jean-Éric Vergne
Nigel Mansell
Max Verstappen

 

[UrBaN963]

Jean-Éric Vergne
Nigel Mansell

In place of who?

 

[satanboy]

In place of who?

The names you quoted

 

[UrBaN963]

The names you quoted

Well if there’s ten cars, let’s have ten drivers. Chop.

 

[satanboy]

Well if there’s ten cars, let’s have ten drivers. Chop.

Piss off twat

 

[UrBaN963]

Piss off twat

Your impatience is shameful. Why you do this?

 

[Sinbad]

Put me in. Just for fun

 

[Wall]

Hamiliton is an exceptionally quick driver - some of his pole laps over his career have been ridiculous IMO

I don't know if I'd put him ahead of Schumacher but there is no doubt he is one of the most talented drivers we've seen.

 

[Dave]

The important question is:
Do you love Hamilton?

Do you think I’m @Grant?

 

[Beavis]

Mmmm this is my list... not 100% sure on some names though...

1. Vettel
2. Senna
3. Hamilton
4. Schumacher
5. Hakkinen
6. Mansell
7. Prost
8. Hunt
9. Alonso (as much as I hate to put his name here... )
10. Fangio

I wanted to put Räikkönen here as well, remembering his battles with Schumacher in the early 2000's, but not sure how to rate him then compared to now... Hill also might be close to a name on the list for me...

 

[mubeend]

999. Vettel
1. Senna
4. Hamilton
2. Schumacher
55. Hakkinen
6. Mansell
3. Prost
8. Hunt
3. Alonso (as much as I hate to put his name here... )
10. Fangio

Fixed it for you.

 

[Agent_Smith]

1. Senna
2. Schumacher
3. Hakkinen
4. Prost
5. Montoya
6. Hamilton
7. Vettel
8. Hunt
9. Fangio
10. Alonso