F1 - 2018 season discussion

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Dave

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Noted... thanks ;)

Better, don’t take things seriously, you might get a bit of a hammering for sticking up for the wrong driver too much (ask @Icemanbrfc about that at present), and every driver on the grid will get stick at some stage.

Nothing is personal or should be taken as being serious from that point of view.
 

Dave

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Agree. One of the good guys. Like Bottas.

Though Bottas needs to have an attitude change, in general he just doesn’t have that killer instinct like the top drivers have/had. He just doesn’t have the temperament to take chances when he should.
 

Icemanbrfc

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Better, don’t take things seriously, you might get a bit of a hammering for sticking up for the wrong driver too much (ask @Icemanbrfc about that at present), and every driver on the grid will get stick at some stage.

Nothing is personal or should be taken as being serious from that point of view.

Iceman is angry mother %%*~¥~£~~£
 

Dave

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My new Guy LeClerc will show you Dave

Let’s hope he’s not allergic to a bit of water like Seb has been recently :p

Don’t forget Ferrari will also need to find a new cheat to be superior to the Merc again next year.
 

Fox1

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As a Ferrari supporter, it was most annoying having Vettel join the team.
 

satanboy

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Let’s hope he’s not allergic to a bit of water like Seb has been recently :p

Don’t forget Ferrari will also need to find a new cheat to be superior to the Merc again next year.

They need to find some strategy too.
 

thestaggy

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Hamilton got into that "winning" seat from the get go because of skill and not luck. When they show his laps side by side to the others you can clearly see he smoother and way more clever when it comes to choosing racing lines depending on the situation.

Michael's car maybe wasn't the best all the time but most of the time it was top 3 and a good couple of years it was the best car there. They also had more play room with strategy in the likes of refueling and never had DRS "to encourage overtaking".

Say what you want, but Hamilton is up there.

So who was/is the best of all time: Schumacher, Hamilton, Clark, Fangio, Senna (if you really think he belongs in the list in which case you have to add Alonso).

Impossible to tell.

Both drivers clearly got in to the sport through a combination of connections and ability - as most F1 drivers do - , one was just in a more fortunate position in terms of what their connections could offer.

Hamilton had a long-term relationship with Ron Dennis and McLaren going back to his youth, so he was fortunate in that Ron could give him a championship-winner (One of the McLaren drivers should've won in 2007) from the start. The last driver to be in that position was Jacques Villeneuve.

Mercedes was planning its F1 entrance but at the time didn't have a presence in the sport, so the best they could do was pay Jordan and then come to an agreement with Benetton to get Michael a seat. Had it not gone this way he'd have entered in 1993 with Sauber through their engine deal with Ilmor-Mercedes.

I also never said Hamilton was a bad driver, explicitly stating ''likely the greatest of his generation '' but not the best for me in the time (24-years) I have been watching the sport.

Talking about cars, Michael also drove cars that utilised heel-and-toe shifting, were nowhere near as stable/planted as modern cars and drove around tracks that punished the smallest of errors. Those slicked cars up until 1997 were twitchy as all hell due to rising engine power, removal of the electronic stability aids and aero reductions. Today you lock a wheel or run wide and there are acres of runoff and flat, forgiving kerbs. Throughout the 90s and in to the mid 00s a locked wheel or running wide meant thumping a kerb that would greatly unsettle or break the car or a trip in to the gravel trap.

In terms of ranking a top-10, its difficult comparing drivers from such diverse eras and rating drivers you never watched race, But if I had to;

1 - Fangio
2 - Clark (Fangio said Clark was the best)
3 - M. Schumacher
4 - Senna
5 - Prost
6 - Hakkinen (Michael said he was the best he ever raced against and the one that pushed him the hardest)
7 - Hamilton
8 - Alonso
9 - Vettel
10 - Mansell
 
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Icemanbrfc

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Both drivers clearly got in to the sport through a combination of connections and ability - as most F1 drivers do - , one was just in a more fortunate position in terms of what their connections could offer.

Hamilton had a long-term relationship with Ron Dennis and McLaren going back to his youth, so he was fortunate in that Ron could give him a championship-winner (One of the McLaren drivers should've won in 2007) from the start. The last driver to be in that position was Jacques Villeneuve.

Mercedes was planning its F1 entrance but at the time didn't have a presence in the sport, so the best they could do was pay Jordan and then come to an agreement with Benetton to get Michael a seat. Had it not gone this way he'd have entered in 1993 with Sauber through their engine deal with Ilmor-Mercedes.

I also never said Hamilton was a bad driver, explicitly stating ''likely the best of his generation'' but not the best for me in the time (24-years) I have been watching the sport.

Talking about cars, Michael also drove cars that utilised heel-and-toe shifting, where nowhere near as stable/planted as modern cars and drove around tracks that punished the smallest of errors. Those slicked cars up until 1997 were twitchy as all hell due to rising engine power, removal of electronic stability aids and aero reductions. Today you lock a wheel or run wide and there are acres of runoff and flat, forgiving kerbs. Throughout the 90s and in to the mid 00s a locked wheel or running wide meant thumping a kerb that could break a suspension or a trip in to the gravel trap.

In terms of ranking a top-10, its difficult comparing drivers from such diverse eras and rating drivers you never watched race, But if I had to;

1 - Fangio
2 - Clark (Fangio said Clark was the best)
3 - M. Schumacher
4 - Senna
5 - Prost
6 - Hakkinen (Michael said he was the best he ever raced against and the one that pushed him the hardest)
7 - Hamilton
8 - Alonso
9 - Vettel
10 - Mansell

No Keke Rosberg? I would say Rosberg would have been better than Seb and Alonso if he was able to have a longer career
 

Icemanbrfc

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Do you mean Nico? If so, not top-10 for me.

No I said Keke.. his dad. Only won 1 title, but had his career been a bit better, reckon he was one of the best. But he is a weired one though, and according to many other drivers one of the best.

I dont think Alonso and Vettel apart from championships, were better than some like Graham Hill, Andretti, Jack Brabham, Alberto Ascari,Jochen Rindt, Mika Hakkinen, Piquet, Fittipaldi, Niki Lauda, Jackie Stewart etc

Granted that those are pretty old drivers, and different eras , those were some fantastic drivers
 
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thestaggy

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No I said Keke.. his dad. Only won 1 title, but had his career been a bit better, reckon he was one of the best. But he is a weired one though, and according to many other drivers one of the best.

I dont think Alonso and Vettel apart from championships, were better than some like Graham Hill, Andretti, Jack Brabham, Alberto Ascari,Jochen Rindt, Mika Hakkinen, Piquet, Fittipaldi etc

From what I've read, Keke ''quit'' on F1 two years before his retirement so the decision to not have a longer career was his. Seems to be a family thing; achieve what you set out to do - win a championship - and then walk away.

A case can be made for all of them. On second thought I'd reconsider my top-10 and get Jackie Stewart in there. There are drivers that never won a world title as well that were highly regarded by their peers, Ronnie Peterson and Stirling Moss coming to mind. Jackie Stewart, the champion he was, couldn't get over the way Ronnie Peterson drove an F1 car, stating that it shouldn't be possible to drive a car the way he did.
 

Icemanbrfc

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From what I've read, Keke ''quit'' on F1 two years before his retirement so the decision to not have a longer career was his. Seems to be a family thing; achieve what you set out to do - win a championship - and then walk away.

A case can be made for all of them. On second thought I'd reconsider my top-10 and get Jackie Stewart in there. There are drivers that never won a world title as well that were highly regarded by their peers, Ronnie Peterson and Stirling Moss coming to mind. Jackie Stewart, the champion he was, couldn't get over the way Ronnie Peterson drove an F1 car, stating that it shouldn't be possible to drive a car the way he did.

Yep I Agree, some that didn’t win a championship would also make a top whatever list. I think James Hunt was also good, and our own Jody Scheckter
 
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