F1 2019 season discussion and chat.

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caroper

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Bring back Ron Dennis, Fire Zak Brown and get you focus back.

Mclaren have turned into a bunch of amateurs.
Alonso nearly took them down financially the first time he drove for them.
This time he has turned a top F1 team into an amature wanbe Indy team.

I like Alonso, he is a good driver, but I don't like what he has done to my favorite team.
 

Willie Trombone

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Bring back Ron Dennis, Fire Zak Brown and get you focus back.

Mclaren have turned into a bunch of amateurs.
Alonso nearly took them down financially the first time he drove for them.
This time he has turned a top F1 team into an amature wanbe Indy team.

I like Alonso, he is a good driver, but I don't like what he has done to my favorite team.
Hold on, what does Alonso have to do with the running of the team?
 

Fox1

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Yeah this is what I was saying earlier in this thread when it was first announced he'd made it into F2. Rushing him into F1 now just because of his name would be potentially the worst thing for him. He's already under so much scrutiny and pressure, the added weight of expectation because of his name could be seriously detrimental. Give him another year at least in F2 and then go from there.
I said the same thing about him in Bahrain but it seems the team isn't on top things either this year.
 

caroper

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Hold on, what does Alonso have to do with the running of the team?
In his first stint he unleashed the spygate saga because the team wouldn't make him number one driver.
This time around he is number one and has made McLaren via Zak Brown, support his Indy challenge.
Despite not driving he is still on the payroll, so if your question was rhetorical I agree with the sentiment, he should have no say in the running of the team. But since Ron Dennis is gone and there is no one else willing to tell him to shut up, drive or ship out, instead they are pampering his every desire and yes, he is manipulating the team.
 

thestaggy

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In his first stint he unleashed the spygate saga because the team wouldn't make him number one driver.
This time around he is number one and has made McLaren via Zak Brown, support his Indy challenge.
Despite not driving he is still on the payroll, so if your question was rhetorical I agree with the sentiment, he should have no say in the running of the team. But since Ron Dennis is gone and there is no one else willing to tell him to shut up, drive or ship out, instead they are pampering his every desire and yes, he is manipulating the team.

This isn't the first time McLaren have been involved in Indy (they've even won the 500) and the McLaren Group is made up of three inter-related subsidiaries that cover multiple areas of technology and racing.

McLaren Group

- McLaren Applied Technologies
This is their technology division that utilises McLaren's F1 background to spread its knowledge and tech in to other areas. They helped refine GlaxoSmithKlines toothpaste production line...F1 to toothpaste.

- McLaren Racing
The F1 team and foundation upon which the McLaren Group was built. But it has never just been an F1 team. McLaren's Indy history goes back to the 1970s. Team founder Bruce McLaren entered a trio of cars in the 1970 Indy 500 for himself, Chris Amon and Denny Hulme. All F1 drivers. McLaren would go on to win two Indy 500s in 1974 and 1976. They also entered the USAC (America's top flight single seater series at the time) championship in the 70s and competed for the championship on a few occasions. All this while they were winning in F1. In 1974 they finished 2nd with Johnny Rutherford in the USAC championship, winning the Indy 500 in the process, and won the F1 championship with Emerson Fittipladi.

Their US operations also included contesting Can-Am in the 60s and 70s which was a sportscar series. They won there as well.

- McLaren Automotive
Their road/supercar division with its own sub-division;
-- McLaren GT
McLaren's GT racing program. Oversees McLaren's various sportscar and endurance endeavours around the world.

McLaren has done it and continues to do it all. They've built and raced F1 cars, Indy cars, USAC cars, sportscars and even toothpaste production lines.

One of the primary reasons behind McLaren ending their partnership with Mercedes is due to the fact that Mercedes wanted more exclusivity from McLaren as an F1 team. Merc wanted them to limit their supercar program and other racing programs while McLaren wanted to expand their wings, as they had in the 60s and 70s. Honda allowed them to do this. Can't put anything on Alonso.
 
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Agent_Smith

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Layout of the new home of the Brazilian GP from 2021 in Rio de Janeiro (Hermann Tilke design)

D7HjRq9WkAME_VJ.jpg
 

caroper

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I know the history of McLaren and have been a fan since the 70's.
You fail to mention that McLaren contested the indy 500 (only the 500 - not a full indy team) from 1970 to 1979 and have had no indy involvement for the last 30 years since then. Under Alonso's encouragement Ron Brown has invested in a full Indy team, which are working like amateurs, whilst the F1 team has diluted management and lacks focus.
I see Alonso as the bad influence who has arguably been involved in every disaster the has befallen Mclaren in the past decade.
 

ArmatageShanks

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I know the history of McLaren and have been a fan since the 70's.
You fail to mention that McLaren contested the indy 500 (only the 500 - not a full indy team) from 1970 to 1979 and have had no indy involvement for the last 30 years since then. Under Alonso's encouragement Ron Brown has invested in a full Indy team, which are working like amateurs, whilst the F1 team has diluted management and lacks focus.
I see Alonso as the bad influence who has arguably been involved in every disaster the has befallen Mclaren in the past decade.

Special-Alonso.jpg
 

thestaggy

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I know the history of McLaren and have been a fan since the 70's.
You fail to mention that McLaren contested the indy 500 (only the 500 - not a full indy team) from 1970 to 1979 and have had no indy involvement for the last 30 years since then. Under Alonso's encouragement Ron Brown has invested in a full Indy team, which are working like amateurs, whilst the F1 team has diluted management and lacks focus.
I see Alonso as the bad influence who has arguably been involved in every disaster the has befallen Mclaren in the past decade.

They did indeed enter a fully-fledged team in the American open-wheel championship (USAC) under the McLaren Cars, McLaren Racing and Team McLaren banners. They built their own chassis to this end as well; the McLaren M16. The USAC-spec M16 would serve as the foundation for the M23, their F1-spec chassis.

1972 USAC Championship
Entered 7 of 10 rounds with Gordon Johncock. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1972/

1973 USAC Championship
Entered 14 of 16 rounds with Johnny Rutherford. Finished 3rd in the championship with 2 wins and 3 further podiums. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1973/

1974 USAC Championship
Entered 13 of 14 rounds with Johnny Rutherford. Finished as runners-up with 4 wins. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1974/

1975 USAC Championship
Entered 12 of 13 rounds with Johnny Rutherford. Runners-up, 1 win, 6 further podiums. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1975/

1976 USAC Championship
Entered all 13 rounds with Johnny Rutherford. Runners-up, 3 wins, 4 further podiums. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1976/

For 1977 they pulled out as an official team, but 13 of the 41 drivers that scored points drove a McLaren at some point, including the series champion. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1977/

In 1978 they returned as a factory team, this time known as Team McLaren. They contested all 18 rounds with Johnny Rutherford while multiple other drivers used McLaren chassis. 2 wins for Rutherford along with 5 more podiums. https://www.driverdb.com/championships/standings/usac-national-championship/1977/

They pulled out for good after the '78 season but other teams would continue to use their chassis until '82.

And what of the 30-year gap? They contested Can-Am (sports cars) in the 60s and 70s and now they are competing in GT racing (sports/supercars) in 2019.
 

caroper

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Actually that 30 years was a typo it is should have been 40 years as your above post confirms.
But we are way of topic. I was talking about Indy and Fernando alonso and you are quoting stuff that is as far as I know, as I have never followed it, Not Indy and everything you have mentioned happened before Alonso was even born.

I was lamenting the fate of my favorite team, Mclaren, since Ron Dennis left and Alonso joined. It was a gut reaction not an impassioned dissertation and, whilst I appreciate your knowledge and always enjoy your insight, this conversation is way of track.
 

thestaggy

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Actually that 30 years was a typo it is should have been 40 years as your above post confirms.
But we are way of topic. I was talking about Indy and Fernando alonso and you are quoting stuff that is as far as I know, as I have never followed it, Not Indy and everything you have mentioned happened before Alonso was even born.

I was lamenting the fate of my favorite team, Mclaren, since Ron Dennis left and Alonso joined. It was a gut reaction not an impassioned dissertation and, whilst I appreciate your knowledge and always enjoy your insight, this conversation is way of track.

The Indy 500 was a round of the USAC Championship and McLaren entered the full championship, not a once off race. McLaren ran two full-time operations on either side of the Atlantic. This is McLaren's pedigree and I'm glad you mention that it was before Alonso's time. This is what McLaren have in their blood; F1, Indy/US open-wheel racing and GT/sportscars.

No argument that Alonso was the catalyst for the recent Indy challenge, but it is in McLaren's DNA.

Also, their 2019 Indy attempt was their first solo effort (2018 was on the back if Andretti Autosport) and the 2019 F1 season also happens to be their best start to a season for some time. I don't see how Indy has sidetracked them when their first solo Indy effort coincides with their best start to an F1 season for a while.

I feel that Alonso has become an easy target for McLaren's malaise. Their fortunes were already declining when Hamilton left them and the Honda partnership was a disaster.
 

caroper

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I don't see how Indy has sidetracked them when their first solo Indy effort coincides with their best start to an F1 season for a while.[

Well they can only improve on their Indy start, or lack thereof. at last next year you can proclaim how much they have improved in indy. it will probably be their best start in 41 years.

I feel that Alonso has become an easy target for McLaren's malaise. Their fortunes were already declining when Hamilton left them and the Honda partnership was a disaster.

It is easy for McLaren to improve from last, they should not have been there to start with.
Country to your opinion I think that the Honda partnership has become an easy target for McLaren's malaise and that their fortunes were declining since Alonso Joined them and started the Spygate saga.

As for blaming Honda I don't see Redbull driving amongst the back makers talking about Formula 2 power units.

But history is just that, lets rather enjoy the Monaco Procession this weekend.
 
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