F1 2019 season discussion and chat.

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thestaggy

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It is easy for McLaren to improve from last, they should not have been there to start with.

Same could be said for Tyrrell, Lotus, Brabham and currently Williams. If pedigree was worth anything, neither team had/has any business at the back of the grid but they wound up there.

Country to your opinion I think that the Honda partnership has become an easy target for McLaren's malaise and that their fortunes were declining since Alonso Joined them and started the Spygate saga.

Closer inspection and Ron Dennis seems to be the biggest baddie in this sorry tale. He played a role in executive-level acrimony within the team and may have inadvertently worsened their financial woes.

2007: Dennis promises Alonso #1 status. Dennis doesn't manage his racers and McLaren, who had two drivers in the championship race, lose out to Ferrari and Kimi. Had Dennis backed a horse they win the championship. Instead they have infighting and Spygate. You can blame Alonso for this, but things get much worse after Alonso leaves.
2008: Post-Spygate, Lewis wins the championship. Harmony.
2009: Ron Dennis steps aside as Team Principal in order to focus on McLaren's road car division. Martin Whitmarsh steps in. Ross Brawn is running around desperate for an engine. Whitmarsh okays a supply of F1's most powerful engines for F1's best chassis. We know what happens next. As for McLaren's on-track performance, they start off badly but over the second half of the season Lewis tallies 40-points (second only to Vettel, 45 points).
2010: Hamilton finishes 16-points behind world champion Vettel. Still not bad 3-years out from Spygate and Alonso.
2011: Red Bull and Vettel nuke everyone, but McLaren was still good enough to power Button to 2nd in the championship.
2012: The rot starts. McLaren still win races but they are now not only well behind Red Bull; Ferrari have gapped them as and Lotus have zoomed up.
2013: Disaster. Hamilton leaves and they crash to 5th in the constructors, nearly 200-points behind Lotus. Behind the scenes Ron Dennis wants to seize majority control of the McLaren Group, ousting longtime friend and stakeholder Mansour Ojjeh in the process. Dennis tries to blindside Ojjeh by holding advanced talks with Chinese investors. Vodafone also end their sponsorship, leaving McLaren without a title sponsor. Dennis refuses to lower McLaren's commercial demands in the face of declining on-track performance and a tighter economic landscape. Its just bad business all round by Dennis.
2014: Before the season, Dennis sacks Martin Whitmarsh, a personal friend of Ojjeh's. Another power move by Dennis. Disarray as they start their partnership with Honda and it never improves. Nightmare season.
2015: More power moves, this time it is Ojjeh as he ensures Jenson Button continues with the team while Dennis was pushing for Kevin Magnussen
2016: Ojjeh (25% owner) and the Bahraini sovereign investment fund (50% owner) band together and have Dennis ousted. Team begins restructuring.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38000198

The team was still competitive with Alonso there and for a number of years after he left. The real catalyst seems to be miscues on the part of Ron Dennis.

As for blaming Honda I don't see Redbull driving amongst the back makers talking about Formula 2 power units.

Red Bull didn't have to develop that engine, so it is easy to say this. Honda finally stopped being the weakest engine on the grid towards the end of last season when they surpassed Renault in the power stakes and don't forget how Red Bull complained about Renault's lack of power as well. Before the reliability woes it was the lack of power Horner was lamenting.
 

Agent_Smith

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Half an hour to go in FP1 and the Mercs are 1 and 2, with the Ferraris 3 and 4 with Gasly 5th with Verstappen 7th, the Red Bulls split by Giovinazzi (huh?!). Seems it's normal service (so far at least)
 

Noseworthy

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Half an hour to go in FP1 and the Mercs are 1 and 2, with the Ferraris 3 and 4 with Gasly 5th with Verstappen 7th, the Red Bulls split by Giovinazzi (huh?!). Seems it's normal service (so far at least)

Its going to be another noahs ark this weekend

Two by two they go

merc 1&2
ferrari 3&4
red bull 5&6
 

caroper

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The team was still competitive with Alonso there and for a number of years after he left. The real catalyst seems to be miscues on the part of Ron Dennis.

I will concede that you are probably being more honest about the situation where as I am approaching the subject as a disgruntled fan of many years.

You are definitely correct that Ron Dennis' attempted hostile takeover did arguably more harm than any other contributing factor, however, we don't know what the internal politics were that caused that spat.

We do know that Alonso maliciously tried to take them down over spygate which if nothing else was morally incongruous seeing as he was the sole benefactor of Chash gate.

The bottom line is that as a fan since the 70's I gave them another 2 years after Ron Dennis left, but watching Zak Brown and Fernando Alonso gut my once favoreat team only to mess up Indy so badly was the last straw.
 

thestaggy

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Kimi, the gift that keeps on giving.

''Yeah, I have that Force India or whatever the f*** it's called''


Also, Williams are finally faster than someone. Both cars ahead of Stroll and only .600 seconds away from Perez.
 

Agent_Smith

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Fckin Chris Evans! The Jon Snow of F1. He knows nothing. Martin trying to discuss turn ins and lateral g loads of the cars with him and all he can do is crack wise about the noise.
 

Hamster

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Fckin Chris Evans! The Jon Snow of F1. He knows nothing. Martin trying to discuss turn ins and lateral g loads of the cars with him and all he can do is crack wise about the noise.

He can literally have the answers to curing the worst diseases on this Earth and I still wouldn't care about anything he has to say.
 

upup

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I read somewhere today that Toto Wolff was married to family of Nicki Lauda, but cannot find any info.
 

Naks

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Interesting article about Renault

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