F1 2020 season discussion and chat.

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Naks

Naks

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Well, well, the gloves are coming off!

Renault lodges protest against Racing Point: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/racing-point-renault-protest-styrian-gp/4832634/amp/

"... The Renault protest alleged that Racing Point had breached the rules by not using a design that had been fully created by itself.

Article 1 of Appendix 6 of the Sporting Regulations states: "A competitor shall, in respect of the Listed Parts to be used in its cars in Formula One, only use Listed Parts which are designed by it."

Renault further cited that Racing Point had not retained: "the exclusive right to use the Listed Parts in Formula One so long as it competes in Formula One."

And it also alleged that in copying the Mercedes concept it had breached rules that required: "in the case of the Outsourcing of design, such third party shall not be a competitor or a party that directly or indirectly designs Listed Parts for any competitor." "
 
Dave

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Naks said:
Well, well, the gloves are coming off!

Renault lodges protest against Racing Point: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/racing-point-renault-protest-styrian-gp/4832634/amp/

"... The Renault protest alleged that Racing Point had breached the rules by not using a design that had been fully created by itself.

Article 1 of Appendix 6 of the Sporting Regulations states: "A competitor shall, in respect of the Listed Parts to be used in its cars in Formula One, only use Listed Parts which are designed by it."

Renault further cited that Racing Point had not retained: "the exclusive right to use the Listed Parts in Formula One so long as it competes in Formula One."

And it also alleged that in copying the Mercedes concept it had breached rules that required: "in the case of the Outsourcing of design, such third party shall not be a competitor or a party that directly or indirectly designs Listed Parts for any competitor." "
Click to expand...

The article goes on to say
However, the FIA has visited Racing Point's factory and gave the outfit the all-clear with its design concept.
Click to expand...

So surely it's just time wasting by Renault?
 
powermzii

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Naks said:
Well, well, the gloves are coming off!

Renault lodges protest against Racing Point: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/racing-point-renault-protest-styrian-gp/4832634/amp/

"... The Renault protest alleged that Racing Point had breached the rules by not using a design that had been fully created by itself.

Article 1 of Appendix 6 of the Sporting Regulations states: "A competitor shall, in respect of the Listed Parts to be used in its cars in Formula One, only use Listed Parts which are designed by it."

Renault further cited that Racing Point had not retained: "the exclusive right to use the Listed Parts in Formula One so long as it competes in Formula One."

And it also alleged that in copying the Mercedes concept it had breached rules that required: "in the case of the Outsourcing of design, such third party shall not be a competitor or a party that directly or indirectly designs Listed Parts for any competitor." "
Click to expand...
I thought Renault had decided to drop the case....

Maybe Strolls move got under their skin
 
powermzii

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Daruk said:
You'll find my comments in last year's thread. Exactly why I admire this guy. He owns his buggerups and is hard on himself before he blames others.
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Martin Brundle actually mentioned that Charles identified this (being so hard on himself) as something he needed to ease up on and change
 
Hamster

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Renault does realise that what they are effectively saying is that they're new car still isn't good enough to beat a knockoff of last year's winning car?
 
Naks

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Stewards request parts from Racing Point and Mercedes following Renault protest: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/12...point-and-mercedes-following-renault-protest/


"... the Stewards summoned and
heard from the team representatives of both teams and a representative of the FIA Technical
Department. The Stewards determined that the protest met all requirements specified in Article 13 of
the FIA International Sporting Code and is, therefore, admissible.
The FIA Technical Department representative was directed to seal and impound the relevant parts of
cars 11 and 18 in preparation for conducting a detailed analysis of those pieces. The representative
is further directed to provide a detailed report to the Stewards with the findings and to include an
assessment that matches those findings against the alleged infringements outlined in the protest.
The representative is authorized in the name of the Stewards to call upon such outside technical
assistance, including representatives of the following teams
– Renault DP World F1 Team
– BWT Racing Point F1 Team
– Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
in the conduct of their assessment.
Furthermore, the Stewards ordered the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team to provide the front and
rear brake air ducts of the Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+ used by the Mercedes-AMG
Petronas F1 Team in the 2019 season to the FIA Technical Department for examination. "
 
Archer

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Meister-Man said:
Merc had gearbox sensor issues, fixed 1 week later.
Rbr had electrical issues, fixed 1 week later.
Ferrari...... Oh Ferrari..
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Merc actually had electrical issues - going over the kerbs was causing issues within the wiring, mainly around the gearbox (hence it looked like gearbox issues). Fixing that is orders of magnitude easier than trying to fix aero problems
 
Archer

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Hamster said:
Renault does realise that what they are effectively saying is that they're new car still isn't good enough to beat a knockoff of last year's winning car?
Click to expand...
I reckon Renault values championship points more then their ego.
 
thestaggy

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Said it at the start of the season; you don't design a car that looks exactly like a rival's car by just looking at pictures. You need a fundamental understanding of why the car looks like it does in order to work and we all know Racing Point heavily outsource to third parties for a lot of their technical stuff. Not as much as Haas, but Racing Point is very much an ''off the shelf'' sort of team.

Far too much smoke for there to not have been a fire.
 
Archer

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thestaggy said:
Was that from this GP? I can't watch Streamable at work.

He was also heavily ''coached'' in the last GP.

Click to expand...

Yes from yesterday. Sounded very similar to the clip you posted. I guess most of it is situation updates, I was mostly surprised by how much direction the race engineer gave with regards to use of the overtake function
 
thestaggy

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Archer said:
Yes from yesterday. Sounded very similar to the clip you posted. I guess most of it is situation updates, I was mostly surprised by how much direction the race engineer gave with regards to use of the overtake function
Click to expand...

This is why I cannot rate modern drivers as highly as their predecessors. Modern engineers play a huge role in the performance of the driver and car.
 
Speedster

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Archer said:
Yes from yesterday. Sounded very similar to the clip you posted. I guess most of it is situation updates, I was mostly surprised by how much direction the race engineer gave with regards to use of the overtake function
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I think it is because the engineer can keep an eye on battery levels etc why the driver keeps his eye on the road?
 
Speedster

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thestaggy said:
This is why I cannot rate modern drivers as highly as their predecessors. Modern engineers play a huge role in the performance of the driver and car.
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There's merit to that, but the cars are far more complex than they were in previous generations. Drivers don't just have gears to change anymore, there are performance modes to adjust, batteries to monitor, drs etc etc. Can't really fault them for having someone assist with that. The driver is still the one who has to implement it all on the track.
 
M

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Seeing as Hungary is regarded as a lower speed track and less dependent on power, but more dependant on good downforce. Do we think Ferrari can fare better there this coming weekend? Hopefully at least be front of the midfield guys and maybe mix it up with Albon?
 
thestaggy

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cr@zydude said:
Explain it to me like I'm 5: How different is what Racing Point did to what Super Aguri and Torro Rosso did in the early 2000's?
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  • Super Aguri SA05 and SA06: Ex-Arrows A23. Super Aguri bought the intellectual rights to the A23 from Arrows after the latter exited the sport. They were free to use the chassis.
  • Super Aguri SA07 and SA08: Protested for being a Honda RA106 and RA107 respectively. However, Honda legally sold the intellectual rights to the chassis to a third party and then Super Aguri legally leased the rights from the third party.

The STRs used from 2005 - 2009 were the product of ingenuity. Red Bull created Red Bull Technology, who's key employee happened to be Adrian Newey. Adrian Newey designed the Red Bulls of which the STRs were copies. As Adrian Newey was employed by Red Bull Technology, a third party who held the intellectual rights, both Red Bull and STR were free to use the same chassis.

Everybody knew what Super Aguri and STR were doing (copying), but legally it was in the clear.

As I mentioned during the debates over Ferrari's engine tricks; the people in F1 are very, very smart and are skilled at finding the grey area and manipulating loopholes. Racing Point has done something crafty, we just need to figure it out, if we ever can.
 
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