F1 2021: New season discussion and chat

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Speedster

Speedster

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Dave said:
And if the car behind had a dash cam or there were witnesses and the car behind hit you and it caused injuries or death you'd likely have been charged with culpable homicide or reckless and/or negligent driving. It's not ok on the road or the track.
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It's also not okay to tailgate on the freeway
 
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quovadis

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thestaggy said:
Eish. He followed the dude for 5 seconds BEFORE Max applied heavier braking. Watch the video and listen. Lewis is shifting down himself. What potato tucks up behind a slowing car and then acts stunned when it goes bad?

The stewards literally said Max was reducing speed consistently before he wasn't. The stewards literally said Lewis had ample opportunity to overtake but like Max, he was playing a stupid game with DRS.
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"the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision"
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You can say what should've been but that's still irrelevant. You're arguing what someone should do in order to avoid what shouldn't have occurred.
 
Speedster

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das Toktokken said:
Sure, I thought that's what you were discussing.
LOL at the freeway. I used to do that until my wife objected... now I just slow down gradually until we're both doing 20kph. If he can't overtake at that speed, he shouldn't be driving up my rear. I'm seldom in a rush as many an impatient butt creeper has found.
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Which ironically is kind of what Max did, until he lost patience.
 
Speedster

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Dave said:
No, you do as Toktokkie says, just gradually slow down and just carry on your merry way holding them up, not brake check, it's dangerous.
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Tailgating is also dangerous. As an example, one of the golden rules on the German autobahn is to maintain a minimum following distance (they have markers all along the side of the autobahn to help with this). Max was wrong to brake, Lewis was wrong to crawl up his ass when he slowed.
 
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Willie Trombone

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Speedster said:
Which ironically is kind of what Max did, until he lost patience.
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Yep. They should probably just update the rules to either disallow handing over the position right before a DRS zone or disallow DRS for a lap after handing it over. That would solve that.
 
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Willie Trombone

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Speedster said:
Tailgating is also dangerous. As an example, one of the golden rules on the German autobahn is to maintain a minimum following distance (they have markers all along the side of the autobahn to help with this). Max was wrong to brake, Lewis was wrong to crawl up his ass when he slowed.
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Tailgating and slipstreaming will be the primary tactic next year with reduced downforce. They'd better get their act together re: erratic braking before then. Imagine how easy it would be for one driver to legitimately take another out leading up to a corner.
 
Speedster

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das Toktokken said:
Tailgating and slipstreaming will be the primary tactic next year with reduced downforce. They'd better get their act together re: erratic braking before then. Imagine how easy it would be for one driver to legitimately take another out leading up to a corner.
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I don't think erratic braking is an issue - this was a unique situation with Lewis crawling up Max's butt when Max was attempting to give the position back. If there's a rule change necessary it's that not taking a position when it's offered should be considered that it has been given back. If you don't want to overtake then so be it.
 
Dave

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Speedster said:
Tailgating is also dangerous. As an example, one of the golden rules on the German autobahn is to maintain a minimum following distance (they have markers all along the side of the autobahn to help with this). Max was wrong to brake, Lewis was wrong to crawl up his ass when he slowed.
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Agreed, but it still doesn't make jamming your brakes on in front of them right.
 
Defonotaltaccount

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Dave said:
Jesus Christ, but you are obtuse. The STEWARDS said so as well.

Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration.
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Braked suddenly as per telemetry.
Not disputed.
"Brake check"
Implies intent as per the definition.
No intent shown to date.

Yet i am obtuse.
 
Agent_Smith

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das Toktokken said:
So question for you - if someone is told to cede the position, who gets to decide where it is ceded? Does the person he is ceding to have to even overtake? What happens if he doesn't (at least not at that point)?

Just because you have decided to slow down doesn't give you the right to behave erratically and stamp on the brakes when someone is behind you.
Max wanted Lewis to take the position then and there, it's not for him to decide when Lewis does take it.
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In the same vane, since when then does Lewis get to decide that it isn't a convenient time to overtake? I'm not denying the brake check or erratic driving from Max, but he slowed to let Lewis pass and Lewis didn't. Lewis was just as culpable here. If it isn't for Max to decide when and where Lewis does or doesn't take it, then similarly it shouldn't be Lewis deciding NOT to take it when offered. To me that means both of them are playing silly DRS buggers. The only thing I can see then coming out of this as already alluded to by other posters is specified passing zones which in itself is going to create a multitude of headaches for drivers and stewards alike
 
Dave

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Speedster said:
Just for some context, that is about 50% of what they'd brake for a stock standard corner.
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Are you sure? The bits I've read say 5g is considered the maximum under braking, so that would be braking from 300kmh for a sharp corner.
 
Speedster

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quovadis said:
Umm. He wasn't doing the speed required to brake at 5G. He basically decelerated around 50-60 km/h in half a second.
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Which is pretty normal in this game. My point is just that it wasn't as drastic as people make it out. Yes, it was unnecessary but no, it wasn't deadly. They were both being silly buggers.
 
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