F1 2021: New season discussion and chat

[chromedome]

I see before the race Button was rabbiting on about Perez's extreme driving style and how this would make it difficult for him at Red bull. What I'm trying to figure out is what is this extreme driving style is? Is it that he likes a car that understeers more than normal or one that hangs the tail out at every corner ?

 

[icarusza]

Mercedes abused the leniency around track limits to such a point that Red Bull told Verstappen to do the same, otherwise he'd lose too much time. That was already deep into the race, so Mercedes surely benefited. On Verstappen's overtake, I'm not sure he wanted to go so wide.. probably lost the car a bit in the moment. It was a great race. It could have been greater with track limits consistently enforced.

 

[Archer]

Quote please.

F1 race director explains why 29 offs for Hamilton were legal

F1 race director Michael Masi has moved to clarify the track limits row that dominated the post-race chatter at the Bahrain GP...

www.crash.net

If you think Hamilton gained an advantage, then you have to hand it to him - that's a pretty good way to make up time when you're clearly .1-.5 off the normal pace of your rival.
Red Bull came in too late with their first stop and lost a ton of time there. Why not blame that for their loss rather.
The FIA are at fault, if anything, for deliberately saying it won't be policed.
How did they think they were going to determine whether there was advantage or not?

Here's what happened. Verstappen was faster but Hamilton won.
Besides, Verstappen had at least 6 laps to overtake and couldn't do it. It's one thing catching, quite another overtaking.

The quote you're looking for is in the article you linked to...

“We had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence,” Masi added.

What you also can't seem to grasp is that I'm not saying RB didn't lose the race (they did with poor decisions). But that doesn't mean that other things that happened in the race are correct.
As for how does one determine whether a driver gets an advantage from it? Hmmm, maybe if the 7 times world champion does it every single lap there is a benefit being gained. Barely rocket science

 

[Willie Trombone]

What you also can't seem to grasp is that I'm not saying RB didn't lose the race (they did with poor decisions). But that doesn't mean that other things that happened in the race are correct.
As for how does one determine whether a driver gets an advantage from it? Hmmm, maybe if the 7 times world champion does it every single lap there is a benefit being gained. Barely rocket science

He also likely gained an advantage by staying within the track limits by saving his tyres towards the end.
Hopefully Red Bull and Verstappen don't stew on it like their fans otherwise they're not going to win this year.
Who determines what's correct? It seems whoever it was is at fault, not those who took advantage of everything they had at their disposal.
If there was cheating involved, they would have penalised.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Michael Masi - "It was clear to everyone that we would not monitor it during the race. But then we saw that some teams were abusing it, doing it every lap, that was not the intention."

Big brain time. What did they think the drivers would do after telling them you won't be monitoring track limits?

So why did they have it in the first place, if nobody was going to monitor it?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Mercedes abused the leniency around track limits to such a point that Red Bull told Verstappen to do the same, otherwise he'd lose too much time. That was already deep into the race, so Mercedes surely benefited. On Verstappen's overtake, I'm not sure he wanted to go so wide.. probably lost the car a bit in the moment. It was a great race. It could have been greater with track limits consistently enforced.

Of course they benefitted, that's how the race was likely won.
Smart driving, not a faster car.
Similarly, they likely benefitted from being told to stop doing it as Hamilton likely had better tyres towards the end as a result.

 

[Willie Trombone]

So why did they have it in the first place, if nobody was going to monitor it?

Why did they have what in the first place?

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Why did they have what in the first place?

Track limits

 

[Willie Trombone]

Track limits

So the drivers know the route from the start to the finish. Otherwise the car with the smallest turning circle wins. Just do a u turn at both ends of the pit straight.
These issues are almost always down to the rule makers.

 

[Dave]

Track limits

Are you new to F1? Every track has specific areas where track limits are enforced (conversely, every track has areas where track limits aren’t enforced).

This has happened for many many years of F1 racing...

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Are you new to F1? Every track has specific areas where track limits are enforced (conversely, every track has areas where track limits aren’t enforced).

This has happened for many many years of F1 racing...

Clearly it wasnt enforced in this race right? My point was, if you have these rules in place like you say, then why are you enforcing for certain and for others its okay? That was clearly what happened here, because they suddenly realised when Max overtook Lewis, that hey, thats not right now

 

[Icemanbrfc]

So the drivers know the route from the start to the finish. Otherwise the car with the smallest turning circle wins. Just do a u turn at both ends of the pit straight.
These issues are almost always down to the rule makers.

Well then the rule makers need to do their job properly. Lewis himself said, he was doing it so many times, and all of a sudden they are now told about it.

@Dave your driver even said he thought there were no track limits, so what now?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Clearly it wasnt enforced in this race right? My point was, if you have these rules in place like you say, then why are you enforcing for certain and for others its okay? That was clearly what happened here, because they suddenly realised when Max overtook Lewis, that hey, thats not right now

That was made clear before the race started... particularly as it relates to turn 4. The rules didn't favour one team over another.
Overtaking off track was illegal as was made clear before the race started. Going off track at turn 4 during a normal lap was not being monitored, as was made clear before the race started.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

That was made clear before the race started... particularly as it relates to turn 4. The rules didn't favour one team over another.

Well then they clearly didn't tell Lewis, because he told Bono on the radio, he thought there were no track limits

 

[Willie Trombone]

Well then they clearly didn't tell Lewis, because he told Bono on the radio, he thought there were no track limits

At that point, they changed their minds and decided to start policing it, yes. If you were watching, you'd know that.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

At that point, they changed their minds and decided to start policing it, yes. If you were watching, you'd know that.

No i watch it, bit you cant suddenly police it. You need to make sure somebody watches it through out. Gains could easily have been made.

 

[Willie Trombone]

No i watch it, bit you cant suddenly police it. You need to make sure somebody watches it through out. Gains could easily have been made.

They were clear that they weren't going to. Then they decided to. That's how it happened.
So Lewis was the one done in if I follow your logic.
That said, I agree with you, they should have just kept the rules the same.
IMO they should add a 1 second penalty for every second you are off track with a minimum of 1s per foray off. We have the tech for that - every car has a camera.

Bottom line, Lewis found a way to beat Max and stay within the rules.

 

[Yats]

RB reckon it's 0.2s per lap that you gain by extending in turn 4... even if we make this 0.1s, thats essentially 3 seconds gained over the race.

SO Max never went wide at turn 4 on any of the other 55 laps?

 

[Willie Trombone]

SO Max never went wide at turn 4 on any of the other 55 laps?

When they finally woke up they told him to go wide there too.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

They were clear that they weren't going to. Then they decided to. That's how it happened.
So Lewis was the one done in if I follow your logic.
That said, I agree with you, they should have just kept the rules the same.
IMO they should add a 1 second penalty for every second you are off track with a minimum of 1s per foray off. We have the tech for that - every car has a camera.

Bottom line, Lewis found a way to beat Max and stay within the rules.

All im saying, is that if they have track limits at turn 4, you best make sure somebody is monitoring it. You cant all of a sudden say oops hold on, lewis is possibly gaining an advantage a bit here, so lets check.