F1 - General discussion and 2016 Season

[stixx]

...

Agreed on your points. However there are some things that already in place. Ferrari already gets a cut of the top from TV revenues, before the distribution to the teams are done. I cant remember the exact figure but it is quite a heafty some. This can be increased to keep them in the sport as there is basically no F1 without Ferrari.

WRT the Williams situation, there can be a limit on the number of teams that can be supplied with a customer chassis, just like there is currently with engines. This will make sure that not everyone has the best chassis, and those who decide to build their own chassis will still be competitive against customer teams. BTW I personally think Williams has a very good engineering department with the current rules, and shouldnt have a problem being competitive against customer teams. They could possiibly be a provider of customer chassis based on their form this year.

For manufacturers to stick around in the sport, they need to have a tangible return on investment. The best return of course is to win, but since there can only be one winner, not everyone can achieve that. The other ways for a tangible return is to make the entry into the sport cheaper and to use relevant technology. Lower capacity and more efficient turbo engines are definitely the way to go - but the MGU-K and MGU-H isnt relevant, i.e. not used on road cars. Manufacturers want to use motor racing as a platform to demonstrate their technology and engineering skills, not spend millions on irrelevant technology.

 

[thestaggy]

It would avoid almost all types of injuries that have happened in recent times e.g. Massa's head injury, Bianchi's accident in Japan, and would have made Webber's upside down flip and Alonso's brush with Grosjean less scary. There would also have the benefit of making the cars faster due to better aero.

Thing is, freak accidents are being used to advocate some pretty radical changes to the sport. Massa and Jules, no matter how tragic the latter is, were freak accidents. I've been watching F1 consistently since 1996 and have memories of it going back to 1994 and 1995 and in all these years I have seen four bizarre events;

1995 - Taki Inoue being knocked over by a course car
2001 or 2002 - Nick Heidfled hitting the open door of a medical car
2008 - Massa being struck by a suspension part
2014 - Bianchi hitting a recovery vehicle

The new breed of tracks are extremely safe and the older tracks have been heavily modified to make them compliant or dropped from the calendar altogether. Not to mention the cars are more forgiving. On-track accidents and spins are massively reduced to the point that seeing a car spin-off is a rarity. In the 90s and early 00s accidents and spin-offs were frequent occurrences.

I'm not saying you should sit back and slack off, but we've had two freak accidents in the past 6-years. It isn't enough to make radical changes. If we have 5 drivers having the same accident in the space of a season then yeah, by all means address it, but we can't be panicking every time someone has an off and then look to make significant changes.

 

[Polish]

Are you referring to the 50 million (or is it 100?) F1 entry fee ?

 

[thestaggy]

Are you referring to the 50 million (or is it 100?) F1 entry fee ?

Yeah, the entry fee. It is somewhere between $45 - $55 million. Not 100% sure.

 

[stixx]

Yeah, the entry fee. It is somewhere between $45 - $55 million. Not 100% sure.

The entry fee is made up of a basic fee of $500,000.00 and then $5000 per point scored in the previous year for 2nd-11nd placed teams, and $6000 per point scored for the winning constructor from the previous year. This structure was introduced for the 2013 season, I am not sure if there have been changes to it.

Article: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/how-the-new-f1-entry-fee-will-work/

 

[Polish]

The entry fee is made up of a basic fee of $500,000.00 and then $5000 per point scored in the previous year for 2nd-11nd placed teams, and $6000 per point scored for the winning constructor from the previous year. This structure was introduced for the 2013 season, I am not sure if there have been changes to it.

Article: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/how-the-new-f1-entry-fee-will-work/

what about new guys entering ?

 

[Willie Trombone]

44 more days to ROC!
http://www.raceofchampions.com/

 

[stixx]

what about new guys entering ?

Good question. I cant find anything regarding a new entry, I would expect that they will need to pay $500,000.00 and also provide documentation to show they are in a financial position to be in F1 for the long term.

 

[thestaggy]

The entry fee is made up of a basic fee of $500,000.00 and then $5000 per point scored in the previous year for 2nd-11nd placed teams, and $6000 per point scored for the winning constructor from the previous year. This structure was introduced for the 2013 season, I am not sure if there have been changes to it.

Article: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/how-the-new-f1-entry-fee-will-work/

$500,000 seems far too low a sum of money for a new team to enter F1. At that price the grid would be jam packed. Maybe we're using the wrong term, but there is another sum teams, at least new ones, have to pay in order to join the championship. They get it back, it is like a deposit. Phoenix Finance, when they bought Prost Grand Prix's assets, had to pay $48 million to enter, which they did not.

Found an article:

If Phoenix/D.A.R.T is so keen to compete and has the money to do it, surely it would be wiser to enter the 2003 World Championship in the normal way - with a downpayment of $48m which is then refunded with interest as the season progresses.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns05905.html

 

[thestaggy]

Back to safety, I'm sure the new generation IndyCar chassis has also set a precedent for safer single-seaters as they are designed to limit the chance of cars being flipped when making wheel-to-wheel contact.

Future F1 car?

 

[stixx]

...

I found something regarding Haas GP (Google skills FTW). They paid more than $20 Million 'deposit' to secure their entry into F1.

Article: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/gene-haas-pays-20-million-deposit-formula-one

 

[thestaggy]

I found something regarding Haas GP (Google skills FTW). They paid more than $20 Million 'deposit' to secure their entry into F1.

Article: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/gene-haas-pays-20-million-deposit-formula-one

Yeah, I thought there would be a more substantial deposit for new teams. Too low and you'll get chancers.

 

[Polish]

Back to safety, I'm sure the new generation IndyCar chassis has also set a precedent for safer single-seaters as they are designed to limit the chance of cars being flipped when making wheel-to-wheel contact.

Future F1 car?

This.

Very slick.

 

[stixx]

Yeah, I thought there would be a more substantial deposit for new teams. Too low and you'll get chancers.

Only in F1 will we speak of $500,000.00 being too low

 

[Polish]

I found something regarding Haas GP (Google skills FTW). They paid more than $20 Million 'deposit' to secure their entry into F1.

Article: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/gene-haas-pays-20-million-deposit-formula-one

Ok, so when we say 'deposit', does it come back or not ?

 

[stixx]

Ok, so when we say 'deposit', does it come back or not ?

This is Bernie we talking about

From an old article that I found - 2010 - the deposit is refundable but will be forfeited should the team fail to race.

 

[Polish]

This is Bernie we talking about

From an old article that I found - 2010 - the deposit is refundable but will be forfeited should the team fail to race.

Hehehe, ja, indeed.

 

[thestaggy]

Ok, so when we say 'deposit', does it come back or not ?

According to the earlier link I provided with regards to Phoenix's failed bid, you get it back with interest as long as you race.

 

[stixx]

This might be interesting, in the name of safety.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/19745

 

[Polish]

This actually makes sense.

The cars are light so could be whisked away in no time.