F1 - General discussion and 2016 Season

[Polish]

In my view he could have helped them out, and/ or put some mechanism in place that aids them.

Even if back markers i would rather see 22 than 18, even if their only job is to disrupt overtaking while being lapped by racing front runners.

We will always have low end teams, somebody must be last, pointless for them to just come and go. Rather help them develop or ease the rules in some way, do something.

 

[Polish]

Some more Alonso/ McLaren news, some kind of announcement seems imminent.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...aren-honda-to-be-the-biggest-in-history-of-f1

 

[vinodh]

In my view he could have helped them out, and/ or put some mechanism in place that aids them.

Even if back markers i would rather see 22 than 18, even if their only job is to disrupt overtaking while being lapped by racing front runners.

We will always have low end teams, somebody must be last, pointless for them to just come and go. Rather help them develop or ease the rules in some way, do something.

I agree with you about the small grids and someone has to finish last. However, Bernie, being Bernie will never bail them out. There is something wrong with F1 and it cannot be fixed quickly. I personally believe that the 2013 cars with DRS and KERS was fine. The engines had reached a point where it was still relatively cheap for a smaller team to afford them and the rules remained fairly constant so the teams did not have to spend massive amounts to be relatively competitive.

The 2014 rules almost seem like they deliberately wanted to weed out the smaller teams by forcing in a new set of rules that did not make financial sense. Limiting fuel and increasing energy recovery systems is good but I think they could have achieved that by less costly means.

 

[caroper]

Some more Alonso/ McLaren news, some kind of announcement seems imminent.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...aren-honda-to-be-the-biggest-in-history-of-f1

Well I have always been a McLaren Fan, for as long as I can remember watching the sport, and have stayed with them through thick and thin, but the past few years has changed my attitude.

First they let Hamilton go, not that I blame them for that, it was his choice, then they fired Whitmarsh who I thought was the most amiable character in the paddock.

Bringing in Bullier annoyed me, both the circumstances and his attitude. How they treated Pérez was but another nail in the coffin.

If they fire Button, after all his loyalty, for an arrogant twit like Alonso then they can go to hell.

As I currently have, and have previously owned several, Hondas. I admire their engineering and innovation. I was rather hoping that the Honda would give Mercedes a run for their money next year. But if Alonso is joining them I actually hope they have as hard a time as Renault did in the first year.

I like Hamilton, I like Toto Wolf and I also have a Mercedes in the garage, I think my allegiance is ready to switch.
Ron Dennis, Bullier and Alonso can can go to hell.

/RANT OFF

 

[D4N]

Will be sad to see Button go, would rather watch him than an unmotivated Raikkonen

 

[vinodh]

Well I have always been a McLaren Fan, for as long as I can remember watching the sport, and have stayed with them through thick and thin, but the past few years has changed my attitude.

First they let Hamilton go, not that I blame them for that, it was his choice, then they fired Whitmarsh who I thought was the most amiable character in the paddock.

Bringing in Bullier annoyed me, both the circumstances and his attitude. How they treated Pérez was but another nail in the coffin.

If they fire Button, after all his loyalty, for an arrogant twit like Alonso then they can go to hell.

As I currently have, and have previously owned several, Hondas. I admire their engineering and innovation. I was rather hoping that the Honda would give Mercedes a run for their money next year. But if Alonso is joining them I actually hope they have as hard a time as Renault did in the first year.

I like Hamilton, I like Toto Wolf and I also have a Mercedes in the garage, I think my allegiance is ready to switch.
Ron Dennis, Bullier and Alonso can can go to hell.

/RANT OFF

Alonso is like all top drivers: full of himself. However, if you wanted a proven race winner to lead the team after several years of not winning the championship, their are very few options open. Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the only drivers currently racing that have shown that they have what it takes to lead a team.

Boulder showed his ability's at Lotus and Ron Dennis probably brought him onboard because he thought Whitmarsh was a bit too amiable.

Button may be loyal but if you look at his track record, he's nothing special. He won in 2009 with a car that was amazing but since then, has never looked like he had the genuine pace and killer instinct to do it again.

I agree with you though that getting rid of Perez was pointless. He would have just gotten better and better at McLaren but they dumped him for another, unproven, youngster.

I've been a fan of McLaren since the days when Senna and Prost where kicking ass as team mates. They have made several stupid moves over the years like getting Peugeot engines, hiring Andretti, Nigel Mansell being too fat for his car, the MP4-18 and MP4-19, getting involved with stealing Ferrari plans etc.

They also made some stunning moves with dual brake pedals, fully auto gearbox, F-Duct etc.

McLaren is a dynamic team that thrives on improvement. That's why Alonso joined them in 2007. I think McLaren realised that maintaining the status quo wasn't working and a radical change of direction was needed. Hopefully it gets a lot better for them next year, and if Alonso is there, then maybe he can lead them back to the former glory.

 

[Polish]

Alonso joined in 2007 afaik, the year Kimi won with Ferrari.

I too am a hardcore McLaren fan, and although it has not gone well over the years I think it has been due to incapable people rather than bad decisions, which maybe one and the same thing but not really.

Hiring Sam Michael was imo a mistake, he ran BMW off the rails back then and continued his legacy at Mclaren. Second fault was handing reigns to Whitmarsh after spygate, he was a good 2IC but not a Denis.

We all knew Lewis era would not last forever, they should have hired someone more capable the minute they saw that Button is not leading as well as expected.

Imo Boulier is crawling back fault after fault undoing issues by the book, and the slow but consistent improvements are testimony to next years hopeful success.

 

[caroper]

Well I have to admit that Alonso is the best driver on the grid and as a business decision it makes sense, but I also think that that is part of the problem.

The Team spirit and loyalty that used to characterise F1 has been lost in the pursuit of business and money.
Designers, Engineers, Drivers even Team Principals are all ready to jump ship to the highest bidder.
The drivers no longer help build the package, they bitch and moan that they have not been given a car they deserve and start looking around for the fastest car of the moment, rather than helping the team as a whole develop and finally take a hard earned victory.

Button I think is one of the last drivers with that mind set and whilst he may not be the fastest he is the most loyal and consistent. I think Vatel is the one who benefited most from a good car, look at him this year comprehensively out performed by Ricciardo.

The thing that has me most annoyed about Alosno joining McLaren was his role in the Spy Gate saga, and his blackmail surrounding it, to try and get No 1 status because he couldn't beat Hamilton fair and square on track. If Ron Dennis takes him back despite the 2007 fiasco then he has sold his soul to the Devil.

If Mclaren Honda come up with even a half decent package with Alonso driving it will be a great year for F1, seeing Alonso and Hamilton fight it out, and we can't count out Rosberg as a prime contender, he has cold cunning to Hamilton's out right drive and Alonso's finesse.

I think it could be a good season, but if it's Alonso in a McLaren verses Hamilton in a Mercedes, I will be a Mercedes fan next year. I just hope that Magneson is not told to drive into a wall or kamikaze into Hamilton to give Alonso an advantage like poor Piquet, Jr had to do when Alonso was No1 at Renault.

 

[thestaggy]

In my view he could have helped them out, and/ or put some mechanism in place that aids them.

Even if back markers i would rather see 22 than 18, even if their only job is to disrupt overtaking while being lapped by racing front runners.

We will always have low end teams, somebody must be last, pointless for them to just come and go. Rather help them develop or ease the rules in some way, do something.

Of course he could've bailed both out, but at the end of the day bank-rolling unsustainable businesses is not smart. That would be no different to the SA government pumping money into SAA and Eskom. It does not solve the problem. Maybe he could've given each team enough money to attend the last 3 Grands Prix. What needs to happen is changes need to be made to make the sport more affordable but even then there are limitations because at the end of the day this is a pinnacle sport. ''Cheapen'' it too much and you may lose brand value. F1 is in a very tough place right now.

Business has definitely killed the sporting aspect. From a business perspective nobody cared about the race for 19th place.

 

[Polish]

Formula 1 to run three-car teams in 2015 before introducing customer cars in 2016 ??

Some more interesting views on this ever so glowingly intriguing matter, what are we actually going to see in 2015.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...before-introducing-customer-cars-in-20168217-

 

[Polish]

I agree with you about the small grids and someone has to finish last. However, Bernie, being Bernie will never bail them out. There is something wrong with F1 and it cannot be fixed quickly. I personally believe that the 2013 cars with DRS and KERS was fine. The engines had reached a point where it was still relatively cheap for a smaller team to afford them and the rules remained fairly constant so the teams did not have to spend massive amounts to be relatively competitive.

The 2014 rules almost seem like they deliberately wanted to weed out the smaller teams by forcing in a new set of rules that did not make financial sense. Limiting fuel and increasing energy recovery systems is good but I think they could have achieved that by less costly means.

Haha, well said then Vinodh

If F1 was rational it would switch back to V8s - Horner

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/183655.html#5W2gPHomGK5mTm2r.99

 

[jones123]

i still have 1 ticket available for abu dhabi final race if anybodies is looking

 

[caroper]

i still have 1 ticket available for abu dhabi final race if anybodies is looking

But abu dhabi is double points, won't you need two tickets to get in

 

[vinodh]

Haha, well said then Vinodh

If F1 was rational it would switch back to V8s - Horner

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/183655.html#5W2gPHomGK5mTm2r.99

Thanks for the link. Quite an interesting read. F1 is not really known for going backwards (returning to V8"s) but the current engine costs combined with the development freeze makes no sense. A few years ago when Red Bull complained that the Renault engine was slightly under powered, they were allowed to make an adjustment to bring that engine in-line with the other manufacturers. Besides that, V8's were already homologated so further development in exotic metals etc was frozen or banned. Costs automatically dropped and teams then worked on other areas of performance.

Now, just trying to stay in business is a trick, never mind trying to score points or win races. I predict that Lotus will fold next with Sauber just behind them.

 

[thestaggy]

Formula 1 to run three-car teams in 2015 before introducing customer cars in 2016 ??

Some more interesting views on this ever so glowingly intriguing matter, what are we actually going to see in 2015.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...before-introducing-customer-cars-in-20168217-

Poor journalism there.

Customers cars have no history in the sport and they would spell the end of the days when smaller teams such as Lotus – and even Jordan – were able to finish on the podium.

Wrong. Customer cars have a rich history in Formula One. Rob Walker, anyone? That famous privateer? How can you write such an article and omit such a famous and indeed successful character? He won 9 Grands Prix running customer Cooper and Lotus chassis and had a famed relationship with Stirling Moss. In fact, Stirling was the first driver to win a Grand Prix in a Lotus and it was while driving Walker's customer Lotus 18. Aside from him there were many, many occasions throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s when customer chassis were run by privateers and 'gentleman' racers.

This is not a new concept.

 

[Polish]

Ok check this out, i wish the video quality was better, this would have been magnificent in HD.

[video=youtube;4PB_BiBn574]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PB_BiBn574[/video]

I am a little confused though which car is which, which wins and what is the significance of the third car that falls away very early.

 

[caroper]

INDIF1 - Oval Track, only 25L of fuel and drivers must stop twice to change helmets.

I think I would prefer 3 car teams

 

[Polish]

INDIF1 - Oval Track, only 25L of fuel and drivers must stop twice to change helmets.

I think I would prefer 3 car teams

Ja but if we must go that route then all teams, not a few teams with three cars then a few teams with two cars and few more with one.

All teams to have three cars running.

 

[caroper]

Rather just cut all the special bonus payments and divvy up the cash on an equitable basis.

12 equal shares to allow for 24 cars and, if only 10 teams are competing, then two shares go into a special ring fenced fund that can be used by FIA / Pirelli etc. to do R&D on proposed rule Changes before it is forced onto teams.

Better Teams will get better sponsors, more than enough incentive to be the best and the guaranteed income will allow privateers and smaller marques back into the sport.

It is still a Sport isn't it, or is it now just a billionaires business club?

 

[Polish]

Been pondering more around the McLaren/ Alonso/ Button/ Magnussen saga.

With Alonso coming in he will obviously take no 1 status, so the 2nd driver will need to be content with a support role and do well at it. Button outdoes Magnussen this year, but he is old, if McLaren want a long term plan his age is against him. However experience is on his side.

This is where Magnussen favours, but his quality lacks. Possibly a bad year, but to be outshined so many times makes you think. He must have thought with Button he still had even chance but now to come in next year guaranteed a support role only must dampen things, so can he match up ?

Replacing both is obviously also possible though not sure if anyone is on the market that is better than Button/ Mag.