Fairly recent atheist - looking for a religion - convince me about yours

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TribbleZA

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I am agnostic. A friend sent me a video to watch on a particular belief system. I am still watching it but in the beginning it mentions these tenets.

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I agree with all of those mentioned. They are rational, logical and basically say that one should do good and help others. It doesn't tell us that our existence here is meaningless - but in fact vital. We need to be involved in the happenings around us and ensure that fairness. honesty and truth is the goal. There is no belief in a mythical creature and no one controls you, but you.

As I said - I am not done watching the video - so I have not made up my mind yet. But it is interesting.

I see that they support abortion, especially when the health of the mother is at risk. They are politically active and promote voting, have created after school centers to keep children safe and give them a place to learn.
In other words - they are proactive and involved
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My investigation continues.
 

Prawnapple

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I am agnostic. A friend sent me a video to watch on a particular belief system. I am still watching it but in the beginning it mentions these tenets.

View attachment 783356
I agree with all of those mentioned. They are rational, logical and basically say that one should do good and help others. It doesn't tell us that our existence here is meaningless - but in fact vital. We need to be involved in the happenings around us and ensure that fairness. honesty and truth is the goal. There is no belief in a mythical creature and no one controls you, but you.

As I said - I am not done watching the video - so I have not made up my mind yet. But it is interesting.

I see that they support abortion, especially when the health of the mother is at risk. They are politically active and promote voting, have created after school centers to keep children safe and give them a place to learn.
In other words - they are proactive and involved
View attachment 783364

My investigation continues.
If I'm not mistaken, those are the Tenets of The Satanic Temple? Who'd have thunk it? The Satanic Temple has Tenets that are objectively better than anything spewed out by the Bible..
 

Prawnapple

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That is a childlike naivety. I guess that is why you are an atheist because you are not a scientist and don't make any sense of reality since it is all just meaningless BS anyway.
Not entirely, but to each his own.
 

EADC

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Honestly, the sheer arrogance of thinking there is a god who cares whether YOU remarry, win a rugby match or masturbate. It's ludicrous. But if it helps you through your day and your meaningless life, who am I to argue with it? Just don't come here thinking you have the inside track and everyone else is caught in the same kind of spiritual dilemma as you are.
Hey you take that back we obviously prayed more than the English.
 

Scary_Turtle

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If I'm not mistaken, those are the Tenets of The Satanic Temple? Who'd have thunk it? The Satanic Temple has Tenets that are objectively better than anything spewed out by the Bible..
There is two groups of satanists one worship Satan and is pretty much the same as believing the bible in reverse the other is actually quiet interesting Satan or God = "self" and there is no belief in Gods. Natural, secular, animal instincts and quiet a disgust (hope that's the right word) towards Christians view on evolution are its pillars.

Actually really close to Atheists but they have a book that they follow which can be misinterpreted (wonder where that happens) and call it satanism because it pee's off religious folks.
 

Bobbin

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You do of course realize Spizzy is just trying to desperately hide the inadequacies of his own meaningless BS and trying to project it onto others.
*sigh

@Spizzy, shall I backhand him for you? /jk

It's a little funny that it's someone else though and not me :laugh:
 

TribbleZA

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If I'm not mistaken, those are the Tenets of The Satanic Temple? Who'd have thunk it? The Satanic Temple has Tenets that are objectively better than anything spewed out by the Bible..
You are correct. That it surprised me too. I am listening to this if you are interested,

Not what I thought it would be at all
 

Bobbin

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The full quote is:

"If you are intelligent and reasonable, you cannot be a product of a mechanical and meaningless universe. Figs do not grow on thistles, grapes do not grow on thorns; therefore you, as an expression of the universe, as an aperture through which the universe is observing itself ...

It is just trying to say that if you take time aside and really focus on the complexities evident throughout the universe, that it would stand to reason that something intelligent, whether it be God or the forces of the universe itself, could have created it.

As a free-thinking, logical individual, this is a perfectly sensible argument. In fact, this inference is the basis for most conventional religions, agnosticism included.


Here is another modern example of the same principle. I like this guy.
It is a compelling argument indeed...

But you have to also question what intelligence is. In an objective sense intelligence is merely a predictive behavioral phenomenon that manifested in varying degrees as a result of evolution (At least this seems plausible). To then extrapolate this phenomenon, that is a mere attribute to life that really only started x billion years after Earth came to be, to the beginnings of the universe is surely a logical fallacy of one sort or another.

In other words, is God intelligent... in a human sense?

I find that link a little uncanny and typical of us silly humans personifying external phenomenon. Intelligence is a trait we have, like two arms and two legs, nothing more. It evolved and developed over time. It surely didn't start at the beginning. Does God have two arms and two legs? No. So does God have intelligence?
 
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Scary_Turtle

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It is a compelling argument indeed...

But you have to also question what intelligence is. In an objective sense intelligence is merely a predictive behavioral phenomenon that manifested in varying degrees as a result of evolution (At least this seems plausible). To then extrapolate this phenomenon, that is a mere attribute to life that really only started x billion years after Earth came to be, to the beginnings of the universe is surely a logical fallacy of one sort or another.

In other words, is God intelligent... in a human sense?

I find that link a little uncanny and typical of us silly humans personifying external phenomenon. Intelligence is a trait we have, like two arms and two legs, nothing more. It evolved and developed over time. It surely didn't start at the beginning. Does God have two arms and two legs? No. So does God have intelligence?
My view on intelligence in the universe is

if an intelligent being created everything and humans are a result of that intelligence, giving us freewill, consciousness etc etc then that intelligent being must also have freewill, consciousness etc etc which means it had to be created by something intelligent or the entire argument is flawed.

The only truthful argument you can make about what created everything is no one knows and untill we understand more no one will know or we may never know.
 

saturnz

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if an intelligent being created everything and humans are a result of that intelligence, giving us freewill, consciousness etc etc then that intelligent being must also have freewill, consciousness etc etc which means it had to be created by something intelligent or the entire argument is flawed.
no it doesn't mean that, I did raise the issue of infinite regression in another thread but given people's tendencies towards violence, theres no real point discussing these things
 

TribbleZA

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there are not many guarantees in this world, but theres nothing wrong with adopting a probabilistic approach
You can adopt it - but keep the knowledge that you may (and quite likely are) wrong. There is no way to tell - and that is why words like faith, belief and trust exist. Death and change are certain. There are a few other certainties but the reason for our existence isn't one of them. That fact that we were created is also in dispute. I know that I am probably wrong - but like you - I like the idea I have in my head. I am open to changing that idea should more information come to light. I once had very strong Christian beliefs - they no longer exist for me. I will probably lose the idea of just being energy in favour of some other notion. Who knows.
 

saturnz

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You can adopt it - but keep the knowledge that you may (and quite likely are) wrong. There is no way to tell - and that is why words like faith, belief and trust exist. Death and change are certain. There are a few other certainties but the reason for our existence isn't one of them. That fact that we were created is also in dispute. I know that I am probably wrong - but like you - I like the idea I have in my head. I am open to changing that idea should more information come to light. I once had very strong Christian beliefs - they no longer exist for me. I will probably lose the idea of just being energy in favour of some other notion. Who knows.
yeah I'm not going to bother replying to these points
 

Bobbin

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no it doesn't mean that, I did raise the issue of infinite regression in another thread but given people's tendencies towards violence, theres no real point discussing these things
You told me the infinite regress thing was concluded as justification to further highlight my supposed violent tendencies and useless contribution. :sneaky: Don't twist the story.
 

Scary_Turtle

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no it doesn't mean that, I did raise the issue of infinite regression in another thread but given people's tendencies towards violence, theres no real point discussing these things
So your answer is no you are wrong with no discussion then my only response to that can be cool, is there a better answer then I don't know.
 

saturnz

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You told me the infinite regress thing was concluded as justification to further highlight my supposed violent tendencies and useless contribution. :sneaky: Don't twist the story.
thats not how things unfolded

you made a comment after the conversation was concluded, I asked how your views matter and your violent tendencies started to come through

nothing is being twisted
 

saturnz

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So your answer is no you are wrong with no discussion then my only response to that can be cool, is there a better answer then I don't know.
I laid out the basic foundations of it in the week in another thread, but then Prawnapple and I came to a deadlock so to speak.
 

Scary_Turtle

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I laid out the basic foundations of it in the week in another thread, but then Prawnapple and I came to a deadlock so to speak.
So you don't know, I don't know, Prawnapple doesn't know, no one knows. Intelligent design is a flawed argument and no one knows the answers, like why are we still talking about this?
 

saturnz

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So you don't know, I don't know, Prawnapple doesn't know, no one knows. Intelligent design is a flawed argument and no one knows the answers, like why are we still talking about this?
I didn't say anything about intelligent design, (edit: my point relates to infinite regress) and Prawnapple was unwilling to discuss the issue further, he gave his reasons, I respected that.

That does not mean ignorance.
 
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