Fairly recent atheist - looking for a religion - convince me about yours

Scary_Turtle

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I didn't say anything about intelligent design, (edit: my point relates to infinite regress) and Prawnapple was unwilling to discuss the issue further, he gave his reasons, I respected that.

That does not mean ignorance.
I'm not talking about infinite regress, you are, I'm talking about intelligent design.

Talking about infinite regress will never end :ROFL::laugh::ROFL: (sorry had to).

So is ignorance in this context not knowing the answer and saying I don't know or not knowing the answer and saying you do know? :unsure:
 

saturnz

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I'm not talking about infinite regress, you are, I'm talking about intelligent design.

Talking about infinite regress will never end :ROFL::laugh::ROFL: (sorry had to).

So is ignorance in this context not knowing the answer and saying I don't know or not knowing the answer and saying you do know? :unsure:
okay we are speaking past each other then, I don't think intelligent design matters with how I structured the argument of infinite regress
 

saturnz

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Well you can't really. You aren't open to change so there is no point in your discussing it.
*sigh*

That fact that we were created is also in dispute. I know that I am probably wrong - but like you - I like the idea I have in my head.
you were created, unless ofcourse you always existed? or do you like the idea in your head that you always existed?
 

TribbleZA

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*sigh*



you were created, unless ofcourse you always existed? or do you like the idea in your head that you always existed?
Are you talking about some deity making me ? Created as in formed randomly - that I can agree to. But a conscious decision to make me - I no longer believe that.
 

saturnz

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Are you talking about some deity making me ? Created as in formed randomly - that I can agree to. But a conscious decision to make me - I no longer believe that.
who mentioned deity? I'm referring specially to your statement

have you always existed? because if you didn't always exist, you came into... existence, did you pop up randomly?
 

TribbleZA

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who mentioned deity? I'm referring specially to your statement

have you always existed? because if you didn't always exist, you came into... existence, did you pop up randomly?
Energy can neither be created or destroyed - it merely changes form. Not sure I call that creation.
"Matter is the substance of which all material is made. That means objects which have mass. Energy is used in science to describe how much potential a physical system has to change. In physics, energy is a property of matter. It can be transferred between objects, and converted in form "

But I do admit that my idea my be nuts. I am not saying it is true - not by any stretch of the imagination. But this is what currently makes sense to me.
 

saturnz

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Energy can neither be created or destroyed - it merely changes form. Not sure I call that creation.
"Matter is the substance of which all material is made. That means objects which have mass. Energy is used in science to describe how much potential a physical system has to change. In physics, energy is a property of matter. It can be transferred between objects, and converted in form "
so I'm going to ask you again, have you always existed?
 

Techne

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No I'm not. This is your attempt at avoiding the questions.....
Nice try, but you cannot run away from your BS forever.

...because other than continuing our species, our lives are meaningless BS. Why on earth would I try to hide it? I accept it with a happy heart. You might find it hard to face it or accept it, but so has every other person who has lived and died up until this point, so tell me what has it done for them?
Oooh, shifty Spizzy, changing his tune. Atheism is meaningless BS and whatever you add is also meaningless BS... even survival. Nice try to run away again.

Honestly, the sheer arrogance of thinking there is a god who cares whether YOU remarry, win a rugby match or masturbate. It's ludicrous. But if it helps you through your day and your meaningless life, who am I to argue with it? Just don't come here thinking you have the inside track and everyone else is caught in the same kind of spiritual dilemma as you are.
Well, since we are on the personal rhetorical BS, let me retort:
Honestly, if it makes you feel better that your life is meaningless BS but you like to come on forums to try and rubbish other people's views and tell them how stupid they are... good for you, don't slit your wrists please.


What load of nonsense. I accept life is meaningless BS, but because you decide to follow a book that has no providence, you are somehow trying to make sense of reality?
Really :rolleyes: you need to improve your rhetoric, it is weak.

If you'd stuck with the philosophical angle, fair enough, that I can respect. But you have put your rationale aside and chosen a god from an old book for reasons you cannot explain. And I am the one out of touch with reality? You harp on about reason and reality, scoff at other peoples beliefs or lack of them, but all the time you have done nothing more than take a leap of faith and stuck all your eggs in one basket because of reasons you cannot explain.

So no, I'm not asking you "why I think Christianity is superior to these other systems", I'm asking you why you chose to believe in the Christian god when there is absolutely no logic or rationale behind it?
Don't be stupid, you cannot respect ANYTHING because it is all meaningless BS.

So let' get a few things straight before you climb on your little meaningless BS soapbox again:
1) The number one issue for me is atheism vs theism. THAT is where the reason, logic, metaphysics, philosophy lies for me. For me it is a no-brainer, atheism is meaningless BS and incompatible with the purposeful endeavour of empirical science, reason and logic in trying to understand reality.
2) Choosing a religion to follow is an entirely subjective decision and influenced heavily by one's upbringing and various biases. I fully acknowledge that and have never denied it. I would not claim that there is "absolutely no logic or rationale behind it". There are pragmatic reasons e.g. it is useful in South Africa to follow Christianity or Christianity is associated with the rise of empirical science in the 12 th century and onward so there is something to it etc.

Can I be persuaded to change my view on 1? Sure, if you can make me believe meaningless BS.
Can I be persuaded to change my view on 2? Sure, how about the FSM? Or maybe I will just drop religion but I will still be a theist.
 

Bobbin

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Don't be stupid, you cannot respect ANYTHING because it is all meaningless BS.

So let' get a few things straight before you climb on your little meaningless BS soapbox again:
1) The number one issue for me is atheism vs theism. THAT is where the reason, logic, metaphysics, philosophy lies for me. For me it is a no-brainer, atheism is meaningless BS and incompatible with the purposeful endeavour of empirical science, reason and logic in trying to understand reality.
2) Choosing a religion to follow is an entirely subjective decision and influenced heavily by one's upbringing and various biases. I fully acknowledge that and have never denied it. I would not claim that there is "absolutely no logic or rationale behind it". There are pragmatic reasons e.g. it is useful in South Africa to follow Christianity or Christianity is associated with the rise of empirical science in the 12 th century and onward so there is something to it etc.

Can I be persuaded to change my view on 1? Sure, if you can make me believe meaningless BS.
Can I be persuaded to change my view on 2? Sure, how about the FSM? Or maybe I will just drop religion but I will still be a theist.
Why do you conflate meaningless with BS? It may be meaningless, but why does that qualify it to be BS? Does the universe owe you meaning or is the universe BS as well? If meaningless is true, is truth BS?

And on the topic of it being meaningless... under atheism there's the potential for life's purpose to be life itself (a self evident position). Thus atheism isn't meaningless even if it may be BS. Why do we need theism to have meaning?

There's also absolute vs. relative meaning, another rabbit hole perhaps.

Bottom line, you say these things and I can't help but think of other considerations I can't ignore. Do you ignore these? Or what is going on that you have such resolve in your conclusions, despite all these considerations? Do these considerations not bug you one bit?
 

Techne

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Why do you conflate meaningless with BS? It may be meaningless, but why does that qualify it to be BS? Does the universe owe you meaning or is the universe BS as well? If meaningless is true, is truth BS?

And on the topic of it being meaningless... under atheism there's the potential for life's purpose to be life itself (a self evident position). Thus atheism isn't meaningless even if it may be BS. Why do we need theism to have meaning?

There's also absolute vs. relative meaning, another rabbit hole perhaps.

Bottom line, you say these things and I can't help but think of other considerations I can't ignore.
BS is being generous. BS actually might have meaning to some.
And no amount of waffling is going to change meaningless BS into any purpose.
 

Bobbin

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BS is being generous. BS actually might have meaning to some.
And no amount of waffling is going to change meaningless BS into any purpose.
See edit, sorry I have tendency to edit frequently to try articulate better.

I'll ignore the waffling remark :/ Again and again and again and again ffs
 

Techne

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See edit, sorry I have tendency to edit frequently to try articulate better.

I'll ignore the waffling remark :/ Again and again and again and again ffs
You should just ignore everything you think about. That is the rational thing to do if you are a materialist.
 

garp

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Hate to break the news, but you’re not an atheist if you’re ”looking for a religion”.
 

Spizz

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Nice try, but you cannot run away from your BS forever.


Oooh, shifty Spizzy, changing his tune. Atheism is meaningless BS and whatever you add is also meaningless BS... even survival. Nice try to run away again.


Well, since we are on the personal rhetorical BS, let me retort:
Honestly, if it makes you feel better that your life is meaningless BS but you like to come on forums to try and rubbish other people's views and tell them how stupid they are... good for you, don't slit your wrists please.



Really :rolleyes: you need to improve your rhetoric, it is weak.


Don't be stupid, you cannot respect ANYTHING because it is all meaningless BS.

So let' get a few things straight before you climb on your little meaningless BS soapbox again:
1) The number one issue for me is atheism vs theism. THAT is where the reason, logic, metaphysics, philosophy lies for me. For me it is a no-brainer, atheism is meaningless BS and incompatible with the purposeful endeavour of empirical science, reason and logic in trying to understand reality.
2) Choosing a religion to follow is an entirely subjective decision and influenced heavily by one's upbringing and various biases. I fully acknowledge that and have never denied it. I would not claim that there is "absolutely no logic or rationale behind it". There are pragmatic reasons e.g. it is useful in South Africa to follow Christianity or Christianity is associated with the rise of empirical science in the 12 th century and onward so there is something to it etc.

Can I be persuaded to change my view on 1? Sure, if you can make me believe meaningless BS.
Can I be persuaded to change my view on 2? Sure, how about the FSM? Or maybe I will just drop religion but I will still be a theist.
Waffle

Deflection

Projection

Ad hominem

Choosing Christianity is a thumb suck.

At last. Why didn’t you just say so in the first place?
 

TysonRoux

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Waffle

Deflection

Projection

Ad hominem

Choosing Christianity is a thumb suck.

At last. Why didn’t you just say so in the first place?
And most likely also believes in resurrecting dead people.


Lets not forget the Prophets of Doom.



If you're on the right cell phone network you can speak to god.


Watch until the end and see him knock that woman lights out.
 
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