Family car suggestions - MPV?

CodeMaster

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OK, a bit of background first...
Looking for a new car for my SO. She is currently using a Corsa Utility because her job requires her to transport bulky equipment around, like a exercise trampoline, mats, balls, etc. It is not often that the bakkie is completely full though.
The problem is that we are now expecting twins, so we need to look for a replacement vehicle that has sufficient storage space, and convenient for child seats, stroller, etc.
My budget is probably in the region of about 120k to 170k

I have been looking at the Toyota Verso, Honda FR-V and the Mazda 5. We still need to have a look at them in the 'flesh', but I would like to hear from people that have these cars. They each have their pros and cons, but the Mazda 5 is probably slightly ahead due to the sliding rear doors. My preference leans towards the FR-V though, as I have never really liked Mazda much, but I haven't driven a reasonably newer model though, so I will reserve judgment until I drive one.
Is there any other suggestions? I have even thought about double-cabs, but the safety and running costs put me off a little.

Things that are important:
- Large load area with easy access
- Must have basic modern safety features - ABS, air bags, etc. (fancier things like ESP, EBD not so important)
- Must have at least two ISOFIX mount points in the rear seats.
- Reliable and reasonably economical
- No real preference towards petrol/diesel
- Gadgets like fold-down trays behind the front seats (Mazda 5) etc, might be a bonus selling point

Another thing, and I realize this will be different for most people, but what average percentage of your salary do you spend on your cars? This question is probably aimed at family people, because single people will generally spend more on a vehicle than any other expense.
 

BCO

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Can you find clean used ones in that price range? The Mazda is apparently very good. Stay clear of a Verso though.
 

CodeMaster

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Not the lower end of the scale, but using www.carfind.co.za as a yard-stick:
Mazda 5 - 2007 - 2.0L Active - 33,000km - R153,900
Mazda 5 - 2007 - 2.0L Active - 73,255km - R156,500
Mazda 5 - 2007 - 2.0L Active - 62,000km - R159,900
Mazda 5 - 2008 - 2.0L Individual - 39,000km - R173,900 (cheapest Individual)

What are your reasons for recommending staying away from the Verso?
 

Waaib

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My brother just had twins so now have 3 kids. He just bought a VW Kombi (new shape). Awesome, awesome, awesome and very nice too.
 

Nuro

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My brother drives an Opel Meriva, it has most ofthe features mentioned. Even things like EBD, fold down trays etc...
 

HapticSimian

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VW Touran 1.9TDI DSG - no contest. Or 2.0TDI if the budget will stretch.
 

Arcam4

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I am a huge Honda fan. Apart from being very reliable they tend to keep their value better than Mazda. However, depending on how you are looking at it, Honda is discontinuing the FRV. It did apparently not take the market as intended. This will not mean that you will not get support, but it might drop a bit in value, quicker than the norm. That being said I think that this does give you some bargaining power. I would choose Honda any day and therefore have two. Depending on your needs also have a look at the new Jazz. They are supprisingly spacious.;)
 

LancelotSA

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Not on your list but I have been a Renault Scenic 2.0 for around two years now and have not had one complaint.

Plenty of hidden compartments, seat variations, storage space etc etc. Safety is also one of the better in the range. And I have the older shape one. The newer version even improves on this.
 

HapticSimian

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...Renault Scenic 2.0...

You'll start complaining like a champion the moment you either need something major done, or you need the smallest of maladies looked at once out of warranty. Be prepared to be financially ruined, but only after you've had your car parked in the corner of the nearest friendly Renault dealership for 2 months.

Awesome cars, but like with Alfa anyone buying one in SA is just opening him/herself to a world of hurt.
 

LancelotSA

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To answer these in relation to my post

Things that are important:
- Large load area with easy access - plenty area in the boot. back seats are on rails and can slide forward to make boot bigger. They can also have their backs folded down flat on the base. They can be flipped up altogether behind the front seats creating one flat boot space. The can be removed.

- Must have basic modern safety features - ABS, air bags, etc. (fancier things like ESP, EBD not so important) - My older model has a four star rating. The newer model has a 5 star.

- Must have at least two ISOFIX mount points in the rear seats. - Even the middle seat belt is a three point belt and not just a lap belt.

- Reliable and reasonably economical - I use around 8 - 9 litres per 100km

- Gadgets like fold-down trays behind the front seats (Mazda 5) etc, might be a bonus selling point - plenty little gadgets (trays behind seats, sunglasses holder above drivers window, "cooler compartment" near radio to keep drinks cold etc) as well as storage compartments scattered throughout (for instance under the foot well in the back seats)
 

LancelotSA

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You'll start complaining like a champion the moment you either need something major done, or you need the smallest of maladies looked at once out of warranty. Be prepared to be financially ruined, but only after you've had your car parked in the corner of the nearest friendly Renault dealership for 2 months.

Awesome cars, but like with Alfa anyone buying one in SA is just opening him/herself to a world of hurt.

Yip, so I was repeatedly warned. Two years, one major, one minor service, cam belt change, brakes etc later I have still not seen this. Andn I took it to the Renault dealer in Pinetown so I didn't cheat. On a previous thread about Renaults and their perceived expensive costs I posted the Kinsey report showing that they were no more expensive than any other similar car. Renault even has a published price list now of the cost of certain "procedures".

I also got warned about the resale value.... the thing being that if you were intelligent you would then take advantage of this fact and buy the car second hand at a bargain!
 

HapticSimian

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Yip, so I was repeatedly warned. Two years, one major, one minor service, cam belt change, brakes etc later I have still not seen this. Andn I took it to the Renault dealer in Pinetown so I didn't cheat. On a previous thread about Renaults and their perceived expensive costs I posted the Kinsey report showing that they were no more expensive than any other similar car. Renault even has a published price list now of the cost of certain "procedures".

I also got warned about the resale value.... the thing being that if you were intelligent you would then take advantage of this fact and buy the car second hand at a bargain!

All mostly valid. What I'm alluding to is needing something like a fender or suspension component replaced. The 'standard' serviceable issues shouldn't be dramatically worse to deal with than other cars.

All things considered, resale isn't the worst of it. Renaults have a very solid reputation for safety & this undoubtedly helps with retention of value, BUT you can do better. I worked in the car industry for almost 5 years and I don't have enough appendages to count the number of Renaults I traded in for exactly the reasons I've mentioned. If your experience is truly that different, you're the exception that proves the rule. :) Given the SA context I will never be able to recommend a Renault with a straight face...
 

BCO

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Yip, so I was repeatedly warned. Two years, one major, one minor service, cam belt change, brakes etc later I have still not seen this. Andn I took it to the Renault dealer in Pinetown so I didn't cheat. On a previous thread about Renaults and their perceived expensive costs I posted the Kinsey report showing that they were no more expensive than any other similar car. Renault even has a published price list now of the cost of certain "procedures".

I also got warned about the resale value.... the thing being that if you were intelligent you would then take advantage of this fact and buy the car second hand at a bargain!

Yes, buy a 2nd hand Renault at a great price. That's what my g/f did and got a whole lot of car for R70k. My one experience with a Renault dealer so far was so good that I blogged about it. Also just got this press release:

RENAULT SOUTH AFRICA TAKES 4TH PLACE OVERALL IN NADA’S 2009 DSI
The results of the 14th annual National Dealers’ Association (NADA) Dealer Satisfaction Index (DSi) survey have just been announced with Renault South Africa scooping 4th place and a silver award.

Bagging an overall score of 72.8% - well ahead of the industry average of 65.7% - Renault was one of just five motor manufacturers and importers to be awarded silver. With a record 27 passenger and light commercial brands participating, the 2009 survey revealed that Renault ranked in the top 25% of South Africa’s motor manufacturers and importers.

Divided into 13 key areas with questions then categorised into three broad and weighted groups, the survey attracted responses from more than 1 000 dealer principals:

• Dealer Friendliness (20%): Renault: 5th place with 75.2% (industry average 70.3%)
• Customer Friendliness (40%): Renault: 4th place with 71.4% (industry average 64%)
• Investor Friendliness (40%): Renault: 2nd place with 73.1% (industry average 65.2%)

“We have worked extremely hard to communicate and build solid and sustainable relationships with each of our dealerships,” says Leslie Ramsoomar, Vice President of Sales and Operations, Renault South Africa. “The results of the 2009 NADA DSi clearly prove that our efforts have been recognised and on behalf of the management and staff at Renault South Africa, I would like to thank every one of our dealer principals and their staff for their unwavering support which paved the way to our solid silver.”

ends

To access NADA’s 2009 DSi survey in full, log on to http://www.nada.co.za
 

CodeMaster

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My brother drives an Opel Meriva, it has most of the features mentioned. Even things like EBD, fold down trays etc...
I suggested the Meriva, but the SO doesn't like it AT ALL. I will add it to the list of cars to have a decent look at though. She love the Corsa Utility though, so strange that she didn't want to consider the Meriva at all.

VW Touran 1.9TDI DSG - no contest. Or 2.0TDI if the budget will stretch.
I will add this one to the list too. The only thing that worried me about the MPV's is storage space. Unfortunately I need large storage space AND rear seats in place for twins, so it doesn't really help me that they can increase storage space by folding down the rear seats.

I am a huge Honda fan. Apart from being very reliable they tend to keep their value better than Mazda. However, depending on how you are looking at it, Honda is discontinuing the FRV. It did apparently not take the market as intended. This will not mean that you will not get support, but it might drop a bit in value, quicker than the norm. That being said I think that this does give you some bargaining power. I would choose Honda any day and therefore have two. Depending on your needs also have a look at the new Jazz. They are surprisingly spacious.;)
Never had a Honda before (well, cars that is :D ), but the FR-V was always top of both our lists. I must admit that hearing about the FR-V being discontinued has soured it a bit for me, but like you mentioned - it may just give some bargaining power.

Not on your list but I have been a Renault Scenic 2.0 for around two years now and have not had one complaint.

Plenty of hidden compartments, seat variations, storage space etc etc. Safety is also one of the better in the range. And I have the older shape one. The newer version even improves on this.
I had already been looking at a Scenic II, some good bargains out there with reasonable mileage - but I feel much the same as enigma. I have heard some real horror stories about Renault that has kinda put me off the brand completely. You do have some good things to say about it, and it did stack-up well against other MPV's in reviews. It will be considered :)

Yes, buy a 2nd hand Renault at a great price. That's what my g/f did and got a whole lot of car for R70k. My one experience with a Renault dealer so far was so good that I blogged about it. Also just got this press release:
Will consider.
You didn't say why you said to stay away from the Verso?
 
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CodeMaster

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My brother just had twins so now have 3 kids. He just bought a VW Kombi (new shape). Awesome, awesome, awesome and very nice too.
Very nice indeed, but even second hand it's out of my price range. I need to be careful on how much I spend now, because even though I could probably afford it now - things will definately change when the twins arrive :)
 

CaTcH21

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I have a Verso since Jan'06 as a business car, for loading stock. I drive the shyte out of it every day, sitting on 135k km's , only change on parts to date was brake pads every 40k km's.

Just bought 3 brand new for the fleet. Toyota is Toyota, very reliable and cheap on parts/spares.
 

BCO

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My brother-in-law had a Verso and it gave him endless problems (prolly a Friday car). Also it's based on the previous Corolla and there should be a new one coming out soon AFAIK.
 

CodeMaster

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I have a Verso since Jan'06 as a business car, for loading stock. I drive the shyte out of it every day, sitting on 135k km's , only change on parts to date was brake pads every 40k km's.

Just bought 3 brand new for the fleet. Toyota is Toyota, very reliable and cheap on parts/spares.

Thanks, I do find the Verso a bit boring though.
This also brings something to mind... what would you all consider REASONABLE mileage on a second-hand vehicle? I would normally consider anything under ± 70k - 80k
 

thedutchman

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look at the chrysler grand voyager with the stow n go feature!! ours works like a charm
 
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