Family of 'intruder' wants to perform ritual at house where he was killed

ForceFate

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It's the funerals that take long and costs big $$ in african culture
Funerals take long and are costly. Expensive in the sense that people aren't open to the idea of burying their loved ones before so and so arrives. Others just want the extravagance because they want to impress the neighbours and "enemies". Yeah, people are that stupid.

Back in the far distant days before arrival of cadaver storage systems, they'd fetch river sand and lay the body on the sand in a thatched hut. Then the people guarding it would sprinkle water on the sand and body from time to time.

I'm not sure of times of burial but from little "research" I did, they'd carry the body to the burial site in the early hours of the morning; usually in the yard, wrap it up with cow hide and lower it into the grave before performing all rituals.
 

Knyro

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This is what it comes down to in a crime-ridden country. You can't trust anybody. He may very well have been somebody seeking help but giving somebody the benefit of the doubt in SA may be the last thing you ever do.

What was he doing in the back yard anyway? Ever heard of the front door? If I bumped into some random in my backyard my first instinct would be to assault them with gardening implements too.
 

Hemi300c

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Jeesus... :sick:

The people who did this should be thrown in prison for life. Even if this guy was a criminal, they hardly gave him a fair trial or chance to speak for himself.
They never put him in a coffin so it's ok.
 

Sollie

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They go solo sometimes. You've obviously never witnessed a lone wolf attempting to break into a house at 10am.
True. Then we had somebody looking for a job at 11pm in the night. Then we had somebody die mid morning on my lawn after the neighbor across the road (shift worker) woke up with somebody in his room. Then tried attacking him. He was first and shot. The guy ran - to only die on my sidewalk, armed. That gave us many months of zero break-ins etc.

To add to the lighter side:
A neighbor had a panic, a single elderly lady, somebody stuffed something through the window where she is sleeping late at night. The intruder said some things he should not, also calling her baby through the window. Neighborhood arrived ready for action, from heavy caliber stuff to paintball guns. We had to pacify the intruder dishing out his business card etc - a guy slightly more than a bit under the influence of Bacchus. Property is a commune. Dude was at the wrong window. His GF lives in the next room. We assured him he is not in trouble as he has no paintball splotches on him. Did not mean the old lady did not give him dirty looks. :ROFL: :laugh:

As for the article - we don't know what really happened. It sounds extreme. By why was the dude running from Ogies? Reporting isn't always not biased. The attackers also probably won't give their side before the court date. So many things to consider ...
 

Sollie

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This is what it comes down to in a crime-ridden country. You can't trust anybody. He may very well have been somebody seeking help but giving somebody the benefit of the doubt in SA may be the last thing you ever do.

What was he doing in the back yard anyway? Ever heard of the front door? If I bumped into some random in my backyard my first instinct would be to assault them with gardening implements too.
Right. Some many questions.

Tbh, this is what I hate about what South Africa has become. I'm still old school and want to help people, enjoy people. But then again anything unexpected triggers me into fight mode - including nearly taking off my wife's head once. We still joke about it. Living in stressful times with bad things happening in a neighborhood can easily create the perfect storm.

Politicians motor-mouthing, peeps like Jones, cops not doing their jobs etc etc are responsible for a lot of what we see today.
 

Jabulani22

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We caught a criminal in our yard once,handed him over to police untouched and boom 3 days later he was walking free,caught the same guy 2 months later in the same spot and this time neighbour klapped him a bit but he still managed to run away in the process,these guys are fast lol ...but guess what he never came back.

Killing a person for petty theft (which is what most of these yard intruder okes are doing) is just plain murder.
Sometimes it begins with *petty theft* but then they see you are vulnerable and kill you but only after hours of torture and rape , im not going to say these okes did well but im sure the *petty* crime must be a huge problem in that place and this shows people are tired of it.
 

Sudo Panic

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He didn't present a threat to a whole mob of people did he?
They should have tied him up and called the police, then he can rot in prison if he committed a crime.

If it had been the homeowner who shot the guy because he looked like he might be a threat, it would have been a different story. But calling your neighbours to beat him to death is disgusting, and makes you nothing but a murderer.
Has a similar incident a couple of years ago except we didn't kill him, the dude was on drugs, had a pair of boltcutter's and tried to escape multiple times there was so much tik flowing through his body he didn't know his legs were broken. They tied him up and we waited for the police. About a year ago he decides to stroll out of pollsmoor, the dude literally walked out, our prison facilities are sad.
 

ponder

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Funerals take long and are costly. Expensive in the sense that people aren't open to the idea of burying their loved ones before so and so arrives. Others just want the extravagance because they want to impress the neighbours and "enemies". Yeah, people are that stupid.
SA insurance companies are catering towards the 'black market'. It's a completely different market to white people for example. You look at the average black person's payslip and you'll see R3k to R6k deductions for funeral policies. They insure all the extended family members etc to pay for the funeral but there are probably a hundred people insuring that same person. They do it for the cash. When it comes to life insurance they opt for anc even though they're married in community of property and it's mostly the females with financial responsibility that will cut out their husbands and nominate the eldest daughter as the beneficiary. Ask them why not the husband they say he'll just spend it on the girlfriend. They don't even want the husbands to know they have a life policy as there has been instances of murder.

The thing I find alarming is they are not really interested in long term investment portfolios, why should they pass on money to their children when they are dead is their reasoning? It's a completely different mindset.
 

ForceFate

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SA insurance companies are catering towards the 'black market'. It's a completely different market to white people for example. You look at the average black person's payslip and you'll see R3k to R6k deductions for funeral policies. They insure all the extended family members etc to pay for the funeral but there are probably a hundred people insuring that same person. They do it for the cash. When it comes to life insurance they opt for anc even though they're married in community of property and it's mostly the females with financial responsibility that will cut out their husbands and nominate the eldest daughter as the beneficiary. Ask them why not the husband they say he'll just spend it on the girlfriend. They don't even want the husbands to know they have a life policy as there has been instances of murder.

The thing I find alarming is they are not really interested in long term investment portfolios, why should they pass on money to their children when they are dead is their reasoning? It's a completely different mindset.
Many people aren't really clued up when it comes to financial matters. Others just plain refuse to plan for the future, opting to "spend their money while they're still alive".

Heard of a guy who received well in excess of R1m for an injury sustained at work. He had been planning to start a business before the money arrived. Plans were ready but as soon as the money arrived, all hell broke loose.

Plans were ditched in favour of the fast lifestyle of cars and prozzies. The guy smacked the money down in less than 2 years.
 

ponder

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Many people aren't really clued up when it comes to financial matters. Others just plain refuse to plan for the future, opting to "spend their money while they're still alive".

Heard of a guy who received well in excess of R1m for an injury sustained at work. He had been planning to start a business before the money arrived. Plans were ready but as soon as the money arrived, all hell broke loose.

Plans were ditched in favour of the fast lifestyle of cars and prozzies. The guy smacked the money down in less than 2 years.
You can call me racist but when it comes to building wealth I find black people simply don't have the same savvy as indians & white people. And I'll say that's due to them not having a background and upbringing in that regard, the older black people I find way savvier but unfortunately it's a bit late by then. It also pains me trying to help people with advice but they're simply not interested.

I think it was that coconut @Knyro years ago that commented on some post saying listen to white people you can learn things from them about how money works etc and I'm really not quoting/saying this to come across as a white supremacist but as someone that would like to see everybody financially well off as that uplifts society around you. Fsck I would love to see everybody doing well and I really do mean that.
 

evilstebunny

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Even if he had bad intentions - it doesn't look like the punishment fit the 'crime'... There isn't even a mention that he was carrying a weapon - break-in implements...nothing....
Maybe he was an apartheid spy? Then even if they set him alight no-one would even blink about his death.
 

konfab

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You don't agree with this statement ?
I don't agree with it because there are lots of different motivations as for why people commit crime.

Theft:
Would I feel sorry for someone who was stealing an apple because they were starving? Yes.
Would I feel sympathetic for a hedge fund manager who was lifting money from people's accounts by fooling old people? No

Murder:
Would I feel sorry for a woman who shoots her abusive husband? Yes.
Would I feel sorry for a woman who murders her child? No.

Culpable Homicide:
Would I feel sorry for someone being charged with culpable homicide because some idiot jumped in front of their car? Yes.
Would I feel sorry for someone being charged with culpable homicide because they didn't do the maintenance on a piece of safety equipment? No.

Then there is the fact that even though someone is a criminal, they are still a human being who can most certainly feel pain and understand the consequences of their actions. Thus abusing someone who is a criminal is just as bad as abusing someone who isn't a criminal.
 

Solarion

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Tell them the White DEVIL owns the property and according to white devil tradition if someone is killed on his property his spirit is now owned by the devil.

The only way to claim his spirit back is to give a piece of land to the white devil.
 

Sam123456

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I don't agree with it because there are lots of different motivations as for why people commit crime.
Where do you draw the line mate? The exceptions you've mentioned are clearly just that - Exceptions. More often than not, crime in this country is gang/syndicate related, or people just trying to get rich at other's expense. Then you get those that have no remorse or value for human life, and will abuse/rape/kill without thinking twice. Would it make it any easier for you to bear if a family member close to you was harmed / killed because a person feeling hungry tried to mug them for some lunch money, and got intimidated by your family member and so had to get violent?
 

Nerfherder

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What ritual?
Its a "gathering of the spirit ritual", in some cultures when a person dies unexpectedly in a place that is not home then the relatives will come and retrieve their spirit from the site.

It happens quite often at the public hospitals, they will come with a branch to "sweep" the spirit back to the family home or wherever.
I haven't seen this personally but I can imagine its quite a thing.
 

Nerfherder

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Where do you draw the line mate? The exceptions you've mentioned are clearly just that - Exceptions. More often than not, crime in this country is gang/syndicate related, or people just trying to get rich at other's expense. Then you get those that have no remorse or value for human life, and will abuse/rape/kill without thinking twice. Would it make it any easier for you to bear if a family member close to you was harmed / killed because a person feeling hungry tried to mug them for some lunch money, and got intimidated by your family member and so had to get violent?
You don't have to draw the line - the law does it for us. There has to be a reasonable threat before you can kill someone.

You can empathise with someone in a bad situation.
 

konfab

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Where do you draw the line mate? The exceptions you've mentioned are clearly just that - Exceptions. More often than not, crime in this country is gang/syndicate related, or people just trying to get rich at other's expense. Then you get those that have no remorse or value for human life, and will abuse/rape/kill without thinking twice. Would it make it any easier for you to bear if a family member close to you was harmed / killed because a person feeling hungry tried to mug them for some lunch money, and got intimidated by your family member and so had to get violent?
The line is that all crimes are wrong. And the people who commit them should be removed from society until they have a really good likelihood of not doing it again.

For every person who decided to steal an apple, there are many more who would ask if they can do something for the shop owner such that they wouldn't have to steal. Understanding why someone did a crime doesn't give that person an excuse. Ditto for a woman who decides to shoot her abusive husband instead of calling the police.
 
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