Family SUV

[nadeem_k]

I’ve heard that Nissan’s merger with Renault has resulted in a deterioration of quality with the cars having different badges but pretty much the same under the bonnet

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I’ve heard that Nissan’s merger with Renault has resulted in a deterioration of quality with the cars having different badges but pretty much the same under the bonnet

Quite the opposite, it actually raised Renault's profile in terms of quality and reliability...

 

[flytek]

Hi Guys,

I need some advice and ideally first-hand experience.

I am trying to decide on a family SUV. Hoping to keep the car for a long time ~10 years so I need something that will go the distance.

I have narrowed it down to the following, which are all a couple of years old and lowish mileage:

• Subaru Forester- Worried that the car isn't that common so getting parts over the long term may be an issue
• Nissan X-trail- Read that reliability isn't as good as before with the CVT gearbox susceptible to failure
• Honda CR-V
• Toyota RAV 4
• VW Tiguan

Reading the Kinsey report, it seems the X-trail is the cheapest to service with the RAV and CR-V being more on the high side.

Any advice?

I went through this a few months back in some detail.
I spreadsheeted every car that might work for several different variables with a focus on cost and performance.
Firstly I didn't want anything slower than my golf that I was driving at 9.3s to 100km/h
Secondly I drive 25000 to 30000km a year so fuel efficiency makes a difference to the overall running costs.

The Japanese cars all fell to inefficiency of their reliable engines. They burned too much fuel of any sort for the performance and thus ruled themselves out.
The bigger the vehicle the more it costs in fuel to push the weight.
Diesels win hands down for big cars and high annual usage.
The biggest single factor is usually the depreciation of the car. The newer it is the faster it depreciates and the more it costs. If you get a car 6 or 7 years old the fuel might be a bigger cost than the depreciation.

I avoid all VW/Audi dsg gearboxes if you are out of warranty because when they blow you lose like R75k if you don't have insurance against that.

The cars that came out tops were.
Audi SQ5 2014 (fast as hell with bulletproof gearbox and engine)
Merc GLC 250 2015 (decent performance for the fuel proper old torque converter box)
Volvo XC60 D5 2018 (not sure about gearbox reliability)

 

[nazmo]

Quite the opposite, it actually raised Renault's profile in terms of quality and reliability...

Only reason i bought a renault. Nissan engine lol.

 

[nadeem_k]

I went through this a few months back in some detail.
I spreadsheeted every car that might work for several different variables with a focus on cost and performance.
Firstly I didn't want anything slower than my golf that I was driving at 9.3s to 100km/h
Secondly I drive 25000 to 30000km a year so fuel efficiency makes a difference to the overall running costs.

The Japanese cars all fell to inefficiency of their reliable engines. They burned too much fuel of any sort for the performance and thus ruled themselves out.
The bigger the vehicle the more it costs in fuel to push the weight.
Diesels win hands down for big cars and high annual usage.
The biggest single factor is usually the depreciation of the car. The newer it is the faster it depreciates and the more it costs. If you get a car 6 or 7 years old the fuel might be a bigger cost than the depreciation.

I avoid all VW/Audi dsg gearboxes if you are out of warranty because when they blow you lose like R75k if you don't have insurance against that.

The cars that came out tops were.
Audi SQ5 2014 (fast as hell with bulletproof gearbox and engine)
Merc GLC 250 2015 (decent performance for the fuel proper old torque converter box)
Volvo XC60 D5 2018 (not sure about gearbox reliability)

What did you choose?

 

[JohnStarr]

I'll never touch VW again.

My father has a RAV and it's very spacious and well built. However, the 2.0 with the CVT gearbox is horribly heavy on fuel. Friends of ours have a newer version with the manual gearbox and are 100% happy with it.
Diesel would be key though. a 2.0 petrol engine offers no real benefits unless it has a turbo, and the petrol RAV4 doesn't have that at all.

The Honda & Nissan sell very well so that's a good thing. If you want a bit more luxury and can pay more, then the Volvo XC60. Brilliant! Diesel engine (2.0D) is powerful and frugal. And it has more extras than the equivalent BMW/Audi for instance.

If you're looking for something larger, then the Toyota Fortuner with the 3.0 D-4D engine is the one to look for.

 

[Athos]

Opel Combo Life. Everything you need in a family car.

 

[ShloshMalosh]

Quite the opposite, it actually raised Renault's profile in terms of quality and reliability...

Renault benefited but Nissan suffered i reckon

The Duster is a xtrail in french PJs

 

[pinball wizard]

Turbos and turbo diesels scare me from a long term ownership point of view... blown turbos can mean 10s of thousands in repairs, and often these go regardless of regular maintainance and care (Tin hat says built in faults to encourage new car sales)

can see why the n/a engines of the CRV and Rav are appealing then... for long term ownership

Meh. I've got 10 years (admittedly only 120 000 km ish) on a 200hp 1.6 turbo engine. No problems.

 

[TheChamp]

I’ve heard that Nissan’s merger with Renault has resulted in a deterioration of quality with the cars having different badges but pretty much the same under the bonnet

People tell tales, they do share engines and other components but that's the very point of the merger.

 

[pinball wizard]

The Duster is a xtrail in french PJs

I don't think so.

The Duster is a Dacia, and has a few bits and pieces from the shared nissan parts bin.

They did put a nissan dress on the Duster and called it a Nissan Kicks in India, and a Terrano for a bit in Brazil I think.

The X-trail and the Kadjar share the same CMF C/D underpinnings.

 

[JohnStarr]

I don't even know what version it is. It's the 110kw 250nm DCT one with most options ticked.
View attachment 1129818

Normally you blank out your registration number!

 

[nazmo]

Normally you blank out your registration number!

admittedly lazy

 

[ShloshMalosh]

I don't think so.

The Duster is a Dacia, and has a few bits and pieces from the shared nissan parts bin.

They did put a nissan dress on the Duster and called it a Nissan Kicks in India, and a Terrano for a bit in Brazil I think.

The X-trail and the Kadjar share the same CMF C/D underpinnings.

TIL

 

[RudderVator]

Just go test drive them.

IMO the CX-5 and Forester come out top because they feel more premium European. The Toyota and Honda while not bad, still have that Japanese plasticky feel to them. The Nissan is probably somewhere inbetween...

Have to vouch here! if you want that European solid door thump and premium interior feeling the New Mazda's and Subaru's lead the way from the Japs for sure.

 

[redspark]

Have you considered a Landrover Freelander? Yes, the 2nd generation (LR2, manufactured b/n 2006 - 2014). Mine is 2010 TD4 HSE (the SD4 version has an extra 20kW). Proper family car, sits on the upper side of softroader ladder. Bought it preowned in 2014 and still very happy

 

[RudderVator]

I’ve heard that Nissan’s merger with Renault has resulted in a deterioration of quality with the cars having different badges but pretty much the same under the bonnet

I would definitely agree that Renault brought Nissans quality down. But Nissan brought Renault's quality up.

Nissan was on the verge of bankruptcy before Renault took over. Too expensive to manufacture, Nissan almost went the same way SAAB did.

 

[Willie Trombone]

So I guess in short the X-Trail should come off the list and maybe replace it with the CX-5.

It seems the Forester doesn't hold value as much with the Rav, CR-V and Tiguan all selling well above book value

The CX5 is a great car. One of my colleagues drives one. Very solid.

 

[flytek]

What did you choose?

The Merc actually won the points scoring but I went with the SQ5 in the end probably because it was so much faster and I don't really like Merc retro styling.
Plus the Merc sounds like a diesel.
The cost difference for fuel and depreciation was R250/month extra for the Audi.
Higher fuel cost but lower depreciation by the way I calculated it using the orange line on the below graph at purchase date and sale date 7 years later to calculate monthly depreciation.

 

[dj_jyno]

I don't even know what version it is. It's the 110kw 250nm DCT one with most options ticked.

Yup, 1.4TSI DSG - 110kW and 250 Nm.