Financial emigration

[vic777]

Has anyone here done financial emigration?

Did you do it yourself, or did you use a consultant? I am hearing horror stories about the massive fees these consultants charge.

 

[reactor_sa]

Where are you immigrating to?

 

[Muttley]

Are you emigrating or you just moving money offshore?

 

[vic777]

I am considering emigration to a European country.

I hear rumours that you won't be able to just submit a zero tax return in SA as you used to be able to do in the past (so you could leave your RA, etc this side if you wanted to). I am also concerned about the volatile Rand.

 

[Corelli]

Standard Bank offers Isle of Man accounts

If you’re lucky and earn enuf you can open an offshore account and use it abroad. Works well.

Alternatively SARS will slap you with fees to take your money abroad (about 15% or more), and a few other charges.

I moved most of my money buying bitcoins and selling it in Singapore. Even scored extra.

But generally if you have moved abroad and opened account there, you can ask the bank here to make a swift transfer to the account there. I still do that often with my pension funds

 

[Corelli]

To emigrate you would need relatives in Europe, a job earning a certain amount or about R10 million or more.

I know in Singapore as an investor I had to give them $2.5 million to get my permits (money which I won’t see again)

 

[vic777]

To emigrate you would need relatives in Europe, a job earning a certain amount or about R10 million or more.

I know in Singapore as an investor I had to give them $2.5 million to get my permits (money which I won’t see again)

I am not concerned with the emigration itself, this thread is about financial emigration specifically

 

[vic777]

If you’re lucky and earn enuf you can open an offshore account and use it abroad. Works well.

Alternatively SARS will slap you with fees to take your money abroad (about 15% or more), and a few other charges.

I moved most of my money buying bitcoins and selling it in Singapore. Even scored extra.

But generally if you have moved abroad and opened account there, you can ask the bank here to make a swift transfer to the account there. I still do that often with my pension funds

Thanks

Ok, so you didn't formally emigrate? How do you get your pension money out if you don't formally (financially) emigrate?

 

[Pho3nix]

I am not concerned with the emigration itself, this thread is about financial emigration specifically

So you just wanna hedge against the Zar?

 

[vic777]

So you just wanna hedge against the Zar?

I want to know what is involved with financial emigration - because I don't trust ZAR performance in the years to come and I don't want to (possibly) be taxed in South Africa for foreign earnings

 

[silkenphoenixx]

I want to know what is involved with financial emigration - because I don't trust ZAR performance in the years to come and I don't want to (possibly) be taxed in South Africa for foreign earnings

If you're in a country where you're already taxed at the rate you would be in SA, then you wouldn't have to pay SARS any extra tax. As far as I understand.

 

[F1 Fan]

To emigrate you would need relatives in Europe, a job earning a certain amount or about R10 million or more.

I know in Singapore as an investor I had to give them $2.5 million to get my permits (money which I won’t see again)

You paid 2.5m dollars to move your money to Singapore??

 

[vic777]

If you're in a country where you're already taxed at the rate you would be in SA, then you wouldn't have to pay SARS any extra tax. As far as I understand.

That is how I understand it as well, but if you get any tax perks in the other country you run the risk that SARS can hit you for the difference

 

[silkenphoenixx]

That is how I understand it as well, but if you get any tax perks in the other country you run the risk that SARS can hit you for the difference

Hmmm, good point. I hadn't considered that.

Would be best to talk to a personal accountant, I haven't needed to ask that question myself.

 

[Voicy]

You can do it from your bank.

You'll need to request a tax clearance form from SARS as well as fill out a form from SARB and have proof of permanent foreign residence. But as soon as you do this, you have to cut up all your bank cards etc and close the accounts.

The sucky part about this is you have to do all of this IN SA. So even if you live abroad, you have to come back just to close your accounts and move your money...then function without your SA bank cards while in SA. Not a huge problem if you already have foreign cards.

If you've been living abroad for over 5 years then you don't need the SARS tax clearance.

The annoying part is that you can get slapped with exit Tax as well as some transfer charges and to top it off - your new country of residence in many cases don't give a toffee about your financial emigration - so all those funds you transfer to your new bank account will be recorded as additional income and you'll pay tax on it accordingly. In my case that tax is 45%.

It won't even really help to use Bitcoin because the second you cash out, the new country registers it as taxable income.

EDIT:

SARB form: MP336(b) - Emigration: Application for foreign capital allowance ​

 

[vic777]

You can do it from your bank.

You'll need to request a tax clearance form from SARS as well as fill out a form from SARB and have proof of permanent foreign residence. But as soon as you do this, you have to cut up all your bank cards etc and close the accounts.

The sucky part about this is you have to do all of this IN SA. So even if you live abroad, you have to come back just to close your accounts and move your money...then function without your SA bank cards while in SA. Not a huge problem if you already have foreign cards.

If you've been living abroad for over 5 years then you don't need the SARS tax clearance.

The annoying part is that you can get slapped with exit Tax as well as some transfer charges and to top it off - your new country of residence in many cases don't give a toffee about your financial emigration - so all those funds you transfer to your new bank account will be recorded as additional income and you'll pay tax on it accordingly. In my case that tax is 45%.

It won't even really help to use Bitcoin because the second you cash out, the new country registers it as taxable income.

EDIT:

SARB form: MP336(b) - Emigration: Application for foreign capital allowance ​

Thank you for the info

With regards to all money in RA's / pension - can you not transfer that into a new pension / preservation scheme in the new country and avoid some of the tax?

 

[fabrulana]

Seems to me with Bitcoin you wil only be taxed in the new country, which sounds like a good deal to me ?

 

[vic777]

Seems to me with Bitcoin you wil only be taxed in the new country, which sounds like a good deal to me ?

How would that work with anything but savings? You still need to financially emigrate to gain access to your RA money.

 

[fabrulana]

How would that work with anything but savings? You still need to financially emigrate to gain access to your RA money.

True, however I wasn't referring to RA's - just to the comments about Bitcoin not helping to transfer money, as you will be taxed in the new country. At least one can skip the taxation in this one (for savings).

 

[reactor_sa]

OP, you can't financially emigrate without physically emigrating. You have to close all local bank accounts and close your tax number. Also the only way to cashout RAs is to financially emigrate. I'm also not aware or heard of international reserve funds for RAs or pension/provident funds so you have to pay tax in SA on those.