Fleeing From South Africa

Palmela

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No one should be surprised to read that Zimbabwe has suffered massive emigration in recent years, especially among its white minority. But much less expected is the fact that next-door South Africa, the continent's wealthiest and most developed country, is suffering a brain drain of its own (if on a smaller scale).

The South African government doesn't keep reliable emigration statistics. But even as the global financial crisis has caused emigration from most other countries to slow, a number of recent independent studies show that mass departures from South Africa are ongoing and are sapping the nation of its skilled and best-educated young citizens.

The most dramatic figures can be found among South African whites, who are leaving at a pace consistent with the advent of "widespread disease, mass natural disasters or large-scale civil conflict," according to a report by the South African Institute on Race Relations. Some 800,000 out of a total white population of 4 million have left since 1995, by one count.
But they're hardly alone. Blacks, coloreds (as people of mixed race are known in South Africa) and Indians are also expressing the desire to leave. In the last 12 years, the number of blacks graduating in South Africa with advanced degrees has grown from 361,000 to 1.4 million a year. (no way!must be checked) But in that time the number of those expressing high hopes to emigrate has doubled.

This wasn't supposed to happen. In many ways, the new South Africa has lived up to its promise of racial harmony and equitable development; its enlightened Constitution, progressive economic policies, and wealth of human and natural resources have all kept it relatively stable since apartheid was swept away in 1994. But that stability could be jeopardized if its human capital keeps leaving at the current rate. South Africa has undergone massive swings in emigration for decades, including since the end of white rule. The shifts can be linked to changes in political stability and economic opportunity, as well as less worrisome factors like simple wanderlust. And all these same factors are at work now, but they've been accentuated by a violent crime epidemic, serious political upheaval and economic globalization.
A poll conducted last May among 600 people of different races, ages and genders found that 20 percent were planning to leave the country. "We are now seeing a new tipping point for an exodus," warned another report from Future Fact, a polling agency. "But this time [it's] across-the-board in terms of race."....

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http://www.newsweek.com/id/184783
 

MadMailMan

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Sorry, already gone. The biggest concern we have here in Switzerland is, long weekend in Italy or France. I'm not joking either. I don’t have to worry about being high jacked or my wife being raped. AND my tax rate is less than 10%. Makes you wonder how the government here does it.
 

StrongTurd

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Sorry, already gone. The biggest concern we have here in Switzerland is, long weekend in Italy or France. I'm not joking either. I don’t have to worry about being high jacked or my wife being raped. AND my tax rate is less than 10%. Makes you wonder how the government here does it.

OT: The Swiss banks are over-leveraged to a stupid degree in Eastern Europe (more than 100% of the Swiss GDP). They must be shi*ting themselves waiting for an Eastern European bank to default.
 

noxibox

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I know a couple of Swiss people who live in South Africa by choice. Both tried returning to Switzerland and found it was still a nice place to visit, but not a country where they'd want to live.

Tax in Switzerland varies depending on where you live.
 

Other Pineapple Smurf

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South Africa is a beautiful country that I love, but I'm not blind. I do not plan to leave this place of birth but I'm putting myself in a situation (studies) that will make it easier to leave if things become unbearable.

Out only hope is a change of government, and a democracy where we no longer have a majority party like the ANC (or the NP in the bad old days).

PS: But I do pray that the DA, god forbid, ever come into power at national level.
 

Mlungu2

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I'm currently doing my masters in Switzerland. Definitely coming home after that, not because I don't like Switzerland ... but there is simply no place like home. Sure we have very serious problems! But I want to contribute to solving those problems and not just simply run away from them. I always wonder how many of the people on this site that always complain about e.g. crime are actively doing something about it (like going to the townships on weekends and teaching school kids some maths)?! I think just paying your taxes and relying on government to do the rest is not good enough. That's not even how it works here in Switzerland. Many of the locals I have met here are actively involved in their communities... and that is after working 10 hours a day during the week.
 

OhGats

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Personally I dont think the govt actually gives a hoot whether every skilled person leaves or not. Its all about their back pocket and their ego's and no longer about the people of the country. In spite of these claims about all the skilled people leaving why is that there are still lots of skilled whites out there that are unemployed, especially in the skilled trades and technical sectors? If I could get out I would head out too (even to Switzerland :) ) but I am too old, dont have a degree and have a useless ZA passport.
 

Sackboy

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I'm currently doing my masters in Switzerland. Definitely coming home after that, not because I don't like Switzerland ... but there is simply no place like home. Sure we have very serious problems! But I want to contribute to solving those problems and not just simply run away from them. I always wonder how many of the people on this site that always complain about e.g. crime are actively doing something about it (like going to the townships on weekends and teaching school kids some maths)?! I think just paying your taxes and relying on government to do the rest is not good enough. That's not even how it works here in Switzerland. Many of the locals I have met here are actively involved in their communities... and that is after working 10 hours a day during the week.
We'll see what happens after you get offered a job in Europe.

I've tried to get involved in the community. It isn't very rewarding and the governing institutions are not cooperative. Even those systems work better in Switzerland. Your opinion carries weight and voters are valued more. The words "more civilized" come to mind.
 

Mlungu2

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We'll see what happens after you get offered a job in Europe.

I've tried to get involved in the community. It isn't very rewarding and the governing institutions are not cooperative. Even those systems work better in Switzerland. Your opinion carries weight and voters are valued more. The words "more civilized" come to mind.

I was offered to do my PHD here.. I would get paid between 5000 and 7000 swiss francs a month depending on how much industry chips in... I don't care, money doesn't equal happiness!
 

Sackboy

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I was offered to do my PHD here.. I would get paid between 5000 and 7000 swiss francs a month depending on how much industry chips in... I don't care, money doesn't equal happiness!
The cost of living in SA has risen quite dramatically - almost in line with the crime. Happiness is not being mugged with a .45 on your way to the shops.
 

elysian

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I always wonder how many of the people on this site that always complain about e.g. crime are actively doing something about it (like going to the townships on weekends and teaching school kids some maths)?!

My wife and I have offered schools in our area assistance, but it's not always that easy to find the time. We were also very active in trying to help some of the locals with jobs, gaining skills (funding courses, etc) - but they're actually just not interested! It seriously boggles my mind. They quit after 1 day of working if the job is too hard and just don't pitch after the first day of a paid for course. And they even admit to your face that they're not interested (and then come begging for money/food a few weeks later).

The foreigners are more than happy with anything they get. But then the locals want to kick their butts.
 

ToxicBunny

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The is an attitude of entitlement that the government are not doing anything constructive to combat.

I have also tried on occasion to actually be proactive and help people in the poorer communities but its not really wanted unless its a free handout, which I don't do.
 

PeterCH

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OT: The Swiss banks are over-leveraged to a stupid degree in Eastern Europe (more than 100% of the Swiss GDP). They must be shi*ting themselves waiting for an Eastern European bank to default.

And the Israelis are also having a go at the Jewish money stolen by Nazis then deposited in Swiss banks with full Swiss complicity ;). Of course the Swiss were mum for a long time about this money.... LOL.
 
F

Fudzy

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As much as people want to leave they have to realise they are entering an arena facing a global financial crises. I've recently heard of 3 friends coming back to South Africa because they have become redundant due to European countries protecting the jobs of nationals and have subsequently learned of work colleague's children also returning home due to the same reason. I believe we should stand fast and make the most of what this country has to offer, fill the skill gaps and vote a competent party into power. We can make this work bar what some might think.
 

Milano

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I'm currently doing my masters in Switzerland. Definitely coming home after that, not because I don't like Switzerland ... but there is simply no place like home. Sure we have very serious problems! But I want to contribute to solving those problems and not just simply run away from them. I always wonder how many of the people on this site that always complain about e.g. crime are actively doing something about it (like going to the townships on weekends and teaching school kids some maths)?! I think just paying your taxes and relying on government to do the rest is not good enough. That's not even how it works here in Switzerland. Many of the locals I have met here are actively involved in their communities... and that is after working 10 hours a day during the week.

Wasn't that American girl, Amy Biel, murdered trying to help the "community"?

Anyway, while your intentions may be commendable, there is nothing you can achieve, since the outflow of skills is too great for the inflow of one skilled person or one thousand skilled people to make a dent.

They were interviewing Bill Gates the other days and he said the US's most important import is IQ. That's how important skills are to even a first world country. As long as this government is so ignorant as to encourage its most highly skilled to leave the country, this country has no future. It is that simple.

Please don't compare the Swiss government to the South African government as they are in completely different leagues. It is insulting to the Swiss.

I think you missed the gist of the article. The war against poverty/crime is already lost due to this exodus. Skilled people are that important.
 

Retro

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The cost of living in SA has risen quite dramatically - almost in line with the crime. Happiness is not being mugged with a .45 on your way to the shops.

Oh please. Stop making it sound as if we're in the middle of a war or something. Yes, crime is bad, but not THAT bad. I read the murder statistics a while ago for last year in the Western Cape. I think there was one murder in Durbanville, but apart from that, all the other murders was in black areas like Langa, Mitchells Plain etc.

Obviously there are other types of crime in other areas as well, but it's not that bad as you make it out to be. Nobody I know have been mugged with a gun on the way to the shops. Of course it happens, but it's not such a common thing as you imply. And with the financial status of other countries, I'm glad to be living in South Africa!
 

PCW

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I was born in the UK. My mother is from CPT so I have dual citizenship. I was raised and educated in the UK but decided to live here. SA has major problems but so does every other country I've been to. It's all about perspective , pluses and minuses. I was in the UK in September for 10 days but after 7 changed my ticket and flew back early as I was bored.

The storm cloud on the horizon for me is JZ. The guy is a disaster.
 

marine1

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Oh please. Stop making it sound as if we're in the middle of a war or something. Yes, crime is bad, but not THAT bad. I read the murder statistics a while ago for last year in the Western Cape. I think there was one murder in Durbanville, but apart from that, all the other murders was in black areas like Langa, Mitchells Plain etc.

Obviously there are other types of crime in other areas as well, but it's not that bad as you make it out to be. Nobody I know have been mugged with a gun on the way to the shops. Of course it happens, but it's not such a common thing as you imply. And with the financial status of other countries, I'm glad to be living in South Africa!
Well then you have no clue whats really going on. We have the highest rate of murder in the world, no?
We are at war !! War with all sorts of crime from being the murder capital of the world to the rape capital of the world. Do you live in the same country?
Just because nobody you know has been attacked doesnt mean it doesnt happen every day to thousands of people.
Reality is we are in trouble. We cannot combat the rampant violent crime
Our police have their hands tied. Our gvt is involved in massive corruption and crime.
 

Lord Anubis

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God help old people in this hell hole. Besides crime I dread being old and frail here!
 

MadMailMan

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OT: The Swiss banks are over-leveraged to a stupid degree in Eastern Europe (more than 100% of the Swiss GDP). They must be shi*ting themselves waiting for an Eastern European bank to default.
Umm I think the Swiss banks pretty much are the Eastern European Banks. Why do you think the Eastern European countries have not had to announce big bailout plans?
I know a couple of Swiss people who live in South Africa by choice. Both tried returning to Switzerland and found it was still a nice place to visit, but not a country where they'd want to live.

Tax in Switzerland varies depending on where you live.
I also know Swiss people living in SA. In fact there are Swiss people in Aus, USA, UK and pretty much any other country you can think of, even Zim. Different folks......
Personally I dont think the govt actually gives a hoot whether every skilled person leaves or not. Its all about their back pocket and their ego's and no longer about the people of the country. In spite of these claims about all the skilled people leaving why is that there are still lots of skilled whites out there that are unemployed, especially in the skilled trades and technical sectors? If I could get out I would head out too (even to Switzerland :) ) but I am too old, dont have a degree and have a useless ZA passport.
If you speak to some of the top ANC guys you will find they are personally very worried about the "brain drain". To build or rebuild a country you need skills that is a fact but the ANC CANNOT be seen to be promoting importing skills or trying to retail "white" skilled people otherwise COSATU will riot.

Don't look at leaving SA as a big fix. It's not easy even moving to Switzerland. Yes it is safe here. Yes the CHF is faily strong. BUT having to learn a new language, move away from family and friends, trying to live in a new culture etc etc. It's NOT easy! But I know it is worth it, for me and my wife anyway.

Oh please. Stop making it sound as if we're in the middle of a war or something. Yes, crime is bad, but not THAT bad. I read the murder statistics a while ago for last year in the Western Cape. I think there was one murder in Durbanville, but apart from that, all the other murders was in black areas like Langa, Mitchells Plain etc.

Obviously there are other types of crime in other areas as well, but it's not that bad as you make it out to be. Nobody I know have been mugged with a gun on the way to the shops. Of course it happens, but it's not such a common thing as you imply. And with the financial status of other countries, I'm glad to be living in South Africa!

It's all relative, according to www.nationmaster.com the last official stats for SA show 21,553 murders (normally over a 1 year period), Switzerland by contras had 213. I can let my wife walk our Dachshund (not a REAL guard dog :D ) after dark and not worry about her being raped or murdered. I'm not saying it could NEVER happen here, there's just more chance of us winning the Lotto.

I will say this time and again. Upping and moving to a new country is NOT easy. That's why so many Saffers are returning to SA, and I don't blame them. People leave SA and other countries for different reasons. My wife and I want to start a family and I challenge all of you to find a better country than Switzerland to do that in. Also the traveling from here is sooooo easy. :D Not to mention the fact that we can live very comfortably on just one salary.
 
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