Forced lockdown or mandated vaccines?

Which would you prefer if these were your only two choices?

  • Forced lockdown for everyone

    Votes: 56 24.5%
  • Forced vaccination for everyone

    Votes: 173 75.5%

  • Total voters
    229

grca

Active Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
61
To all those in favour of forced vaccination, I have to ask: what are you hoping to achieve, long term? Eradication of sars-cov-2? Do you realise that will never happen? This virus will be with us forever. The choice to vax against it should be a similar choice as has been to vax against flu. I'm sure everyone wants to end the pandemic, however forced vaccinations and all of the control mechanisms that go with it are exactly what will ensure the pandemic never ends, because sars-cov-2 will mutate forever. So do people really want to subject themselves to living in fear forever? Living with the uncertainty of what controls will shut down life from the next variant, forever? To having to be injected every 6-12 months, and being locked out of society for not complying, forever?

If people really want this pandemic to end, the only scenario that will provide that is to reject vaccine mandates. To reject all the irrational fear. To decide for yourself if you need to be vaccinated. And to improve your health as best you can. Sars-cov-2 is not going away. The only choices are: (1) choose between the wealth of protections against it and live with it, (2) live in a constant state of pandemic. It's really that simple.

And what about seeking justice from all the perpetrators of its creation? I assume the lab leak theory is widely accepted to be true, but one never sees any effort being spared to go after all the parties that put this nightmare in motion.
 

Hush9300

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
2,129
So all the Medical Experts are wrong, and you are right?
Go and look at studies pre-Covid then come here and argue a case for mandatory masking. The efficacy of masks mitigating viral transmission is flimsy, at best.
 

RiaX

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
5,399
You may have missed it but not all medical experts are in agreement on covid, its treatment and the way people, especially media and government have been reacting to it.

In fact, there is more disagreement in medical circles than has even been the case in history. You're just blind to it.

Kinda not true. We in disagreement in what to use with active covid since there is no real antiviral for it and severe post covid complications since we dont understand fully how the damages are occuring and sustaining so long.

We are however in total agreement for vaccination. Unless you are contra-indicated for the vaccine no medical officer worth their title will tell you not to get it.

The mandatory and freedom of choice debate is irrelevant to us. I will say though the popular opinion when we see unvaccinated in high care/ICU is ... "sigh idiots"
 

grca

Active Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
61
Variants of this virus that could partially evade the immune system of a vaccinated person indeed did originate in unvaccinated populations. They can originate anywhere.
We are however in total agreement for vaccination. Unless you are contra-indicated for the vaccine no medical officer worth their title will tell you not to get it.
These guys are in some kind of vaccine dreamland.
 

vigras rojara

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
3,961
Could said "medical experts" explain why Covid cases are higher now in counties with comprehensive vaccination compliance than when the same counties had no/low vaccination compliance?
Have you been to London recently? And were you there during lockdown?

If so you wouldn't be asking this question.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
37,436
So many anti-vaxxers full of righteous piss and vinegar, but when they are denied entry to stadiums, venues, , theatres, universities, all they'll do is suck it up and get quite cross on Whatsapp.

Nè.
Haha, check this guy:
(and the replies...urgh). What is it with all these people who try to portray themselves as alpha males (look at the profile pic) being scared of a needle? Not very alpha.
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
21,481
There is no human rights violation in making vaccines mandatory. There is probably nothing in South Africa's constitution that prohibits it either. Schools can't require childhood vaccines because that goes against each child's right to access to education. The government could still make childhood vaccines mandatory without violating any other aspect of the constitution. They just can't used schools as a way to enforce the requirement.

No, the problem is that there isn't much justification for making the vaccines mandatory. It is very likely that sooner rather than later most people in the country will have immune memory for this virus. So protecting the hospitals and keeping the economy open aren't going to be strong arguments for mandatory vaccination. Neither are the other common justifications. Making childhood vaccinations mandatory can actually be justified.

Will choose vaccine above lockdown

Seems need 90+ % vaccination rate to make a difference tho.
You also need to be able to reach that percentage really fast. If you want a chance at preventing transmission it has to be 3 months or less. If you just want to prevent illness you may have as much as 6 months. But the closer to those times you finish the more likely that you have to start all over again. How many countries managed to vaccinate their entire population in under 6 months? Imagine having to get say 300 million people vaccinated in under 6 months. For a single dose vaccine South Africa would need to do over 200,000 vaccinations a day, 7 days a week to get all adults vaccinated in 6 months. Even if everyone wanted the vaccine and the facilities were accessible I doubt that it would be feasible.

You're assuming this is done for the benefit of population health and not profit. For the latter, who cares what the numbers are, as long as they go up and can be leveraged to coerce vaccination.
I'm addressing the hypothesis that more testing could have headed off the growth in infections and ultimately wiped out the virus. The idea that if only we did enough testing we could stop it.
 

dusi

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
961
Would that be a rapid antibody test? There is no way I’m submitting to regular invasive PCR tests.

Need to detect who has the virus., and the vaxxed are the silent carriers so everyone needs to be probed. Round up the infected and put them in isolation until recovered.
 

alanB

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
606
It is a common claim used to argue against vaccination for this virus, so it does matter.


It wasn't a changed mutation rate, but rather a reduced error correction rate. But that is in a multicellular organism under stress instead of simply being killed outright. Each virion that gets attacked by the immune system, even if a virus could experience stress, gets destroyed. They also have no awareness that I know of so they can't really get panicked about their brethren being killed right in front of them. And arguably the virus is always under stress whether it is encountering an attacking naïve immune system or one that has encountered the virus before.

The reduced error correction that occurs in the fruit fly under stress also doesn't occur as a means of improving survival. It is simply a case of an organism having limited energy available and stress consuming some of that energy, leaving less for expensive things like checking and fixing DNA. If anything it causes more offspring to be born defective.

Variants of this virus that could partially evade the immune system of a vaccinated person indeed did originate in unvaccinated populations. They can originate anywhere.
Are you making that all up, or do actually know what you are talking about?

Just wondering?

The reason why I'm asking is you have no way of knowing what article I read. Because it was at least 10-15 years ago, and I cannot remember myself.

So how do you know what mechanism was discovered in that experiment?
 

vigras rojara

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
3,961

thehuman

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
3,821
Could said "medical experts" explain why Covid cases are higher now in counties with comprehensive vaccination compliance than when the same counties had no/low vaccination compliance?
Maybe some countries exception 20211125_011834.jpg
 

Dolby

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
28,935
So all the Medical Experts are wrong, and you are right?
Have you not seen how high these guys rate themselves? Of course they know more than anyone else about, well, everything

Every post starts off by telling us how smart he is - before actually getting to what they want to say.

Why do we even question him...
 

noxibox

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
21,481
Need to detect who has the virus., and the vaxxed are the silent carriers so everyone needs to be probed. Round up the infected and put them in isolation until recovered.
Won't and can't work. Test 40 million people and you'll have 200,000 false positives. Let's say prevalence is 10% and be generous, say the false negative rate is only 5%, then you'll get a mere 200,000 infected people still walking around. If prevalence goes down the ratio gets even worse.

So not something for which I'm willing to allow some hack to wreck the inside of my nose.

Haha, check this guy:
(and the replies...urgh). What is it with all these people who try to portray themselves as alpha males (look at the profile pic) being scared of a needle? Not very alpha.
There is also the idiotic tag line/header or whatever twitter calls it.

Of course these company vaccine mandates are yet to be tested. Several months ago they might have sailed through, but with some of the expected benefits of the vaccines turning out not to exist challenges may actually succeed.
 
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