Forced lockdown or mandated vaccines?

Which would you prefer if these were your only two choices?

  • Forced lockdown for everyone

    Votes: 56 24.5%
  • Forced vaccination for everyone

    Votes: 173 75.5%

  • Total voters
    229

Neuk_

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You're referring to reducing the impact on hospitals, and that is what the vaccine should be used for, and given to those in risk groups such as the elderly, those with comorbidities and compromised immune systems, these are the persons most likely to end up in hospital. My point is vaccines aren't the solution to end the pandemic but it can be used as a tool to reduce severity of illness in risk groups and reduce the impact on hospitals.

And why did it spread during lockdown? Because we didn't do mandatory testing, we didn't detect those who were infected because many people can be asymptomatic. If people want to work, then they need to have a negative test, if they are positive then they must isolate until recovered. That's how we slow down the transmission.

Your solution makes no sense, you're saying make the virus more widespread so everyone gains immunity, why not do the opposite, detect who is infected, slow down the transmission and eventually contain the virus so it becomes endemic to certain regions and eventually dies out, exactly how they controlled other virus outbreaks like Ebola.

Comparing Ebola to COVID-19 isn't comparing apples to apples, Ebola has a case fatality rate from 25% up to 90% in some cases while COVID-19 is barely 2% at the moment. As much as people hate to hear it, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is very much like the influenza virus, and neither will die out for many, many, many, many years to come. So it is best we learn to live with it, manage it's risks and end this nonsense of locking otherwise perfectly healthy people away and potentially destroying livelihoods.
 

VoodooBean

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I love a thread full of conspiracy theorists !

" The Aliens did it " - Agent Mulder !
 

Fulcrum29

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Appreciated


They didn't laugh at my case as it hadn't happened yet - but when I showed them articles of people dying and being turned away because of full hospitals, they just joked and said the hospital should have prepared better and other underhanded insults. Zero f**ks given about anyone else

I agree - but they're under the impression that *if* we did a mandatory vaccine, we'd be infringing on their rights and the constitution would support them. No thought process as to the rights of others as well. It's not acut & dry thing - as you say, we all have rights that need be respected .

Well, like I pointed, if they believe in the 2% death rate and have chosen to reject the vaccine - then simply put, they need to pay for their assistance . But no one wants that :
  • They want to choose NOT to get vaccinated
  • Cause others to be pushed away from the hospitals because they're clogging
  • Prefer not to give up their beds to other emergency clients / vaccinated clients
  • Possibly push my medical aid rates up 2022/2023 (watch this space ...)



You're the close to giving an answer, and the answer was about choice . Others couldn't really answer why they didn't want it, other than ... they don't want it / f**k the government

Look, I don’t want to argue with you. You have good cause to share your views. I am only in the opinion that everyone must be listened to, in the same manner people also need to listen to you. There are things that you have said I agree with, but I am not going to ridicule those who don't share the same views as you or me who both have our own respective views, to each their own and all that.

We are still very much in unknown territory, and I do hope the world comes to a more inclusive solution.

Anyhow.
 

porchrat

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So, exactly like the Kobayashi Maru? Which could be beaten.
Beaten by changing the scenario... which pretty much defies the entire point of the question set within that hypothetical scenario.

It's basically the same as not taking part. You've chosen, given the parameters of the scenario, to not answer. Again, if you're going to do that rather just ignore the thread.

Or keep being a stubborn child that can't shift his paradigm even for a hypothetical, whichever you prefer I suppose.
 
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Hush9300

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2,129
... and this annoys me :

This is a family member that urgently needed a lifesaving non-Covid related operation. Already, the hospitals are full of unvaccinated (by choice) individuals already and they've needed to setup a satellite high care room.

And the unvaccinated laugh at this situation ?
They don't care about any one else's rights, but expect us to respect theirs ?
And they still want medical aid to cover their hospital treatment ?

And the sad thing is that most of them have no clue why they do it . As @Fulcrum29 says, f**k the system and rebelling is cool regardless who else suffers
And you expect us to believe that the high care is full of unvaccinated Covid patients? Is Covid the only disease going around? Could it be that the high care is full of non-Covid related patients?

Currently there are a grand total of 124 people in high care in the WHOLE of Gauteng due to Covid as per todays hospital surveillance.

GAU - 124
EC - 3
KZN - 57
LMP - 3
MP - 7
NW - 10
NC - 1
WC - 105

They're non-Covid patients. Possibly as a remnant of the lockdowns a few of you supported. You're just being emotional...
They didn't laugh at my case as it hadn't happened yet - but when I showed them articles of people dying and being turned away because of full hospitals, they just joked and said the hospital should have prepared better and other underhanded insults. Zero f**ks given about anyone else

Is this not a valid concern or is it such that the government can **** about for 2 years and then still demand mandates for an ever decreasing naïve population.

I agree - but they're under the impression that *if* we did a mandatory vaccine, we'd be infringing on their rights and the constitution would support them. No thought process as to the rights of others as well. It's not acut & dry thing - as you say, we all have rights that need be respected .

No **** hey, but mandating vaccines is not as simple as mandating proper attire at a swimming pool. You don't get to take it back. Whether you like it or not the issue of vaccine mandates is vexing because there are implications far further than just disease spread and a hospital bed... In any event why would you care? You got penetrated so you won't be needing a hospital. Isn't it that only the unclean go to such places for to Covid?
 

daveza

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Messages
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I find it confusing how both of these options need to apply to everyone?
Officially:
- 5% of the entire population South African got Covid
- Of this 5%, 96% have recovered.
- Of this 5%, 4% have died.

But everyone must submit, or else.

Fsck off.

I take it you are under 50.


Over 82% of the fatalities have been among those over 50 years of age

So forgive us old farts for being a little less flippant.

1638460036618.png
 

Dolby

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fear mongering.

There's that phrase again ;)

Sometimes I feel that it's the only phrase that anti-vaxxers can say .

So the death rate locally is 3% - but do you think many more are admitted to hospital and then recover after they've been attended to ?
So, maybe 10% go into the hospital and 7% walk away ?
And if there was no medical assistance we'd have a fatality rate of 1 of in 10 that contract ?

Maybe that's why the unvaccinated want that safety net ?
 

dusi

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Messages
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There's that phrase again ;)

Sometimes I feel that it's the only phrase that anti-vaxxers can say .

So the death rate locally is 3% - but do you think many more are admitted to hospital and then recover after they've been attended to ?
So, maybe 10% go into the hospital and 7% walk away ?
And if there was no medical assistance we'd have a fatality rate of 1 of in 10 that contract ?

Maybe that's why the unvaccinated want that safety net ?

Death rate is much lower than 3% if you're looking at total cases vs deaths because the case rate depends on who was tested, and about 20% of people are asymptomatic so they may not get tested, also many people who have symptoms don't get tested and isolate instead, never knowing if they had covid. So the true covid case rate is much higher than what is reported. And also deaths are over reported, if someone has a fatal health issue but also happens to be covid positive, then their death might be labeled as a covid death. So the true death rate after contracting covid is much lower than 3%. Again, stop fear mongering. If someone is concerned with their immune system, or is elderly or has a health issue, then they should get vaccinated for additional protection.
 

daveza

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Messages
45,360
And also deaths are over reported, if someone has a fatal health issue but also happens to be covid positive, then their death might be labeled as a covid death. So the true death rate after contracting covid is much lower than 3%.

Would he he died ,at the time he did, had he not contracted Covid ?

If his expected life-time was much longer, then his death is covid related.

Edit:


“When we ask if COVID killed somebody, it means ‘Did they die sooner than they would have if they didn't have the virus?’” Lessler says. Even a person with a potentially life-shortening condition such as heart disease may have lived another five, 10 or more years, had they not become infected with COVID-19.
 
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dusi

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Would he he died ,at the time he did, had he not contracted Covid ?

If his expected life-time was much longer, then his death is covid related.

Edit:


We may never know because people were ending up in hospital with various serious conditions before covid, and now those people could also be covid positive. So it's hard to determine which is the cause, it could be one or the other or both. So probably easier to label it as covid related.
 

JustinB

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Messages
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Comparing Ebola to COVID-19 isn't comparing apples to apples, Ebola has a case fatality rate from 25% up to 90% in some cases while COVID-19 is barely 2% at the moment. As much as people hate to hear it, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is very much like the influenza virus, and neither will die out for many, many, many, many years to come. So it is best we learn to live with it, manage it's risks and end this nonsense of locking otherwise perfectly healthy people away and potentially destroying livelihoods.
So how many people were infected by influenza this year? And how many by covid?
 

JustinB

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And you expect us to believe that the high care is full of unvaccinated Covid patients? Is Covid the only disease going around? Could it be that the high care is full of non-Covid related patients?

Currently there are a grand total of 124 people in high care in the WHOLE of Gauteng due to Covid as per todays hospital surveillance.

GAU - 124
EC - 3
KZN - 57
LMP - 3
MP - 7
NW - 10
NC - 1
WC - 105

They're non-Covid patients. Possibly as a remnant of the lockdowns a few of you supported. You're just being emotional...


Is this not a valid concern or is it such that the government can **** about for 2 years and then still demand mandates for an ever decreasing naïve population.



No **** hey, but mandating vaccines is not as simple as mandating proper attire at a swimming pool. You don't get to take it back. Whether you like it or not the issue of vaccine mandates is vexing because there are implications far further than just disease spread and a hospital bed... In any event why would you care? You got penetrated so you won't be needing a hospital. Isn't it that only the unclean go to such places for to Covid?
You do realise that whole sections of hospitals are designated for covid. They don't mix and match or simply bucket people into "sick" and "very sick".
 

JustinB

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We may never know because people were ending up in hospital with various serious conditions before covid, and now those people could also be covid positive. So it's hard to determine which is the cause, it could be one or the other or both. So probably easier to label it as covid related.
Yeah. I get that. Just like it's easier to think a vaccine causes some people to have heart failure and die spontaneously?
 

dusi

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Messages
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You do realise that whole sections of hospitals are designated for covid. They don't mix and match or simply bucket people into "sick" and "very sick".
Yeh that's my point, so let's say someone has malaria but also covid positive, so they get put into the covid ward not to infect other non-covid patients, and then they pass away from malaria, but since they're in the covid ward it gets marked as covid death related, it's plausible for that to occur especially in poorly equipped / under staffed clinics and hospitals.
 

JustinB

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Yeh that's my point, so let's say someone has malaria but also covid positive, so they get put into the covid ward not to infect other non-covid patients, and then they pass away from malaria, but since they're in the covid ward it gets marked as covid death related, it's plausible for that to occur especially in poorly equipped / under staffed clinics and hospitals.
Sure. We could argue that death was not a predetermined outcome and covid contributed. So what is the right answer?

We could also talk about people that die who do not have easy access to proper healthcare. What are their deaths being attributed to?

I don't know what the right answer is. All I do know is I've met people who have died from covid. I sat in a hospital praying for a bed (actually that's not true - I was moaning about not being allowed to go home). I've seen bed shortages first hand and it seems there are a group of people who think this is a narrative to get people to vaccinate.
 
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