Forget Bakkies. Instead, look a little closer to home...

Darkwing

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Forget Bakkies. Instead, look a little closer to home... to the South African supporter, writes Ian Williams.

What is it with some local sports fans? It appears many are stuck in a time-warp, and the fading embers of the laager mentality, so prevalent in the 1980s, can still be seen in a segment of the South African fan-base which believes the rules don't apply to us - we're allowed to lash out, and we'll simply defend our position by citing our counterparts' transgressions.

Justifying the unjustifiable, apportioning blame, and taking cheap shots at the opposition have become standard practice in sport, and in the past weeks we have seen incidents where players have lost the plot and - even worse - coaches, management and sadly, fans, have leapt to their defence.

Schalk Burger shamed South Africans with his "eye-gouging incident" in the second Test match against the Lions at Loftus last week and was rightly slammed by the rugby-loving public and duly punished by the custodians of the game. But, perhaps, Burger is not the only one whose actions should be examined.

Forget Bakkies. Instead, look a little closer to home... to the South African supporter.

We love to see our sides do well, of course, but occasionally the win-at-all-costs attitude displayed by some "supporters" is a real turn-off.

Crammed into a city pub to watch the epic encounter unfolding at Loftus, my - and no doubt others' - enjoyment of the thrilling spectacle was severely curtailed by a female supporter whose non-stop screeching literally bordered on hate speech.

With a voice like a rasp, and possessing the vocabulary of a drunken sailor, the fan took centre stage in front of a packed house of Bok and Lions supporters.

Every - and I mean every - time she opened her mouth, there was such an outpouring of filth, vitriol and anger that it was an embarrassment to anybody within earshot. Every bit of action on the field was met with a rant - much of its venom was directed at the Lions players, but there were also many demands for the Boks to perpetrate mindless violence on their opponents. Disturbingly, every other word began with an "f" or a "p".

When Gethin Jenkins was helped off, after suffering a fractured cheekbone, his injury was met with "Go back to your mummy!" Except she didn't say "go", but used two words, the second being "off".

Charming.

Admittedly French referee Christophe Berdos didn't have the greatest of matches, but to suddenly and publicly characterise the Loftus ref as a sex criminal went way beyond the bounds of reasonable behaviour.

In contrast, the red-clad members of the audience were diplomatic.

"Bit of a thug, isn't he?" they said of Burger. "Not having a very good game," they said of the ref.

And, to a man (and woman), they showed something not all of our local fans could - a knowledge of the laws of the game.

Admittedly, the visitors were all rugby supporters, including many ex-players, so their knowledge of rugby should be better than your average fan, but still: what is the point of hurling abuse when you have little or no understanding of rugby laws.

In fact, I sat entranced as an elderly Welshman patiently explained to a local rugby supporter why one of the Lions players had been penalised. The Bok fan was amazed - here was "the enemy" admitting a mistake, pointing out the offence and its deserved punishment, and even admitting the player had a history of the same offence!

And that was what really exposes the hate-mongers for what they are - ignoramuses when it comes to the laws, but whose loathing for any opponent blinds them to the reality, and ruins everyone else's enjoyment of what is otherwise a magnificent spectacle.

She is not the first and this behaviour is not limited only to rugby - remember the so-called local fan who abused Australian cricketer Merv Hughes in a Wanderers Test some years ago?

And this thuggish behaviour is also not limited to South Africans. English football hooligans are infamous and some of their European counterparts are not far behind. Sections of the Australian cricketing public have also garnered bad press in recent years. But this is no justification.

And it's also no good to say that it is only a small section of South African fans who tarnish our country's good name.

The "it wasn't me" syndrome doesn't wash as the image that is portrayed to outsiders doesn't distinguish between the true fan and the lout... in fact, it is the behaviour of the latter that will inevitably and indelibly linger in the mind.

We, fans, are all custodians of sport and it is incumbent upon us to strive to root out any and all behaviour which sends out a message that South African fans are boorish and ill-mannered.

Let's play the ball and not the man.

http://www.capeargus.co.za/?fSectionId=3571&fArticleId=5069557&ap=1


hear hear..
 

davemc

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An entire article because of one screeching woman "sailor".
ROFL
 
P

Picard

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I bet we would have seen the same in an UK pub.

Supporters that have the money to fly 8000kms are normally respectable and well-mannered individuals. Of course you won't see them acting hooliganish here.

EDIT: But still I would have enjoyed telling the woman to STFU ... please.
 

Devill

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With a voice like a rasp, and possessing the vocabulary of a drunken sailor, the fan took centre stage in front of a packed house of Bok and Lions supporters.

Every - and I mean every - time she opened her mouth, there was such an outpouring of filth, vitriol and anger that it was an embarrassment to anybody within earshot. Every bit of action on the field was met with a rant - much of its venom was directed at the Lions players, but there were also many demands for the Boks to perpetrate mindless violence on their opponents. Disturbingly, every other word began with an "f" or a "p".

Ihave sat next to people like this in Scotland, London, Cape town, PTA, Jo'burg.... They are everywhere, and yes I wish I could lob of their heads with an blunt axe but these people are not rugby supporters nor rugby fans.... They are the people that think they know a little about the game but clearly the know very little. Like I said you get these individuals everywhere.

In contrast, the red-clad members of the audience were diplomatic.

"Bit of a thug, isn't he?" they said of Burger. "Not having a very good game," they said of the ref.

If I was sitting in an English pub out numbered 10-1, I would also not be making bad comments about the opposing team ;) Ever sat in a Man U pub supporting Liverpool? You are damn right you will be very diplomatic.....

And, to a man (and woman), they showed something not all of our local fans could - a knowledge of the laws of the game.

People don't fly 8000km+ to come watch a sport they have no knowledge of......

Admittedly, the visitors were all rugby supporters, including many ex-players, so their knowledge of rugby should be better than your average fan, but still: what is the point of hurling abuse when you have little or no understanding of rugby laws.

Agree 100%, but this is not a rugby fan, she was a drunk at the local pub trying to draw as much attention as possible.

In fact, I sat entranced as an elderly Welshman patiently explained to a local rugby supporter why one of the Lions players had been penalised. The Bok fan was amazed - here was "the enemy" admitting a mistake, pointing out the offence and its deserved punishment, and even admitting the player had a history of the same offence!

When we watch rugby we discuss why, which players are not up to standard.... and we do this for both teams. But good on the old guy for being a true rugby supporter.

I feel this was written without having a broader view, I wonder if this person has ever watched "big games" in other countries.... you will always find one idiot that has strayed to for from his/her village.
 

cybershark

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How dumb, pathetic and naive do you have to be to take one action from a person or small minority as representative of all?
 

Darkwing

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How dumb, pathetic and naive do you have to be to take one action from a person or small minority as representative of all?

But it's not just one person is it? During any rugby game here the level of abuse & foul language hurled at the opposing team is way above the norm than in any other country I've been to. Especially if the game is against the old "enemy" ;)
 

Devill

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But it's not just one person is it? During any rugby game here the level of abuse & foul language hurled at the opposing team is way above the norm than in any other country I've been to. Especially if the game is against the old "enemy" ;)

Have you watched a B&I rugby game in england in a "blue collar" pub? Have you even watched a soccer game like Barca vs Man U in a English pub?

Lol, then also go look at the Aussie cricket supporters that shout profanities and racist remarks at our and other players touring there....

Yes, seems to be only in SA where this is happening :rolleyes:
 

Darkwing

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Have you watched a B&I rugby game in england in a "blue collar" pub? Have you even watched a soccer game like Barca vs Man U in a English pub?

Lol, then also go look at the Aussie cricket supporters that shout profanities and racist remarks at our and other players touring there....

Yes, seems to be only in SA where this is happening :rolleyes:

Yes plenty plenty times over 25 years. I agree about the soccer & Man U (scum) supporters but not all the rugby supporters they are generally much better behaved & have had some schooling.

And don't we call all the aussies sheep sh@ggers? ;)

BTW. Remember Pieter van Zyl? :eek:
 

Devill

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Yes plenty plenty times over 25 years. I agree about the soccer & Man U (scum) supporters but not all the rugby supporters they are generally much better behaved & have had some schooling.

And don't we call all the aussies sheep sh@ggers? ;)

BTW. Remember Pieter van Zyl? :eek:

1 moron tackled a ref, why judge all afrikaners / south africans / white people / sa rugby supporters by that? But everytime we/india/pakistan/Bang come back from Aus there are some complaints from players about the crowd.....

Ps where did you watch the B&I Lions games in the UK/Ire/Scot/Wales? (area and pub)

Look go read my first postin this thread... every country has its idiots and unfortunately people remember the one drunk D00s insttead of the 99 well behaved supporters :(
 

Darkwing

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Ps where did you watch the B&I Lions games in the UK/Ire/Scot/Wales? (area and pub) (

All over. Top of my head. London, Luton, Manchester, Glasgow, Wales, Northern Ireland, the rougher the pub the better.. :)
 

Gothan

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Perhaps if refs can be cited in rugby like in soccer, people would not fly of the handle, but no, it cannot happen, the ref is the all mighty overlord, and I am sorry to say, there has been a steep decline in the number of quality refs, that is why people are getting fed up. And check your stats, when it comes to "reffing" decisions, south africa always pulls on the shortest straw.

Burger got 8 weeks for his infringement, the guy from saturday that jump knees first into the back of du Preez got two week....interesting. Bakkies got a 2 week ban for a legal move!! Saturday 2 british lions players did the exact same move, and nothing.

So please, I understand the peoples frustration (although drunken women swearing like sailors is just bad period), but the british are no where near the angelic little angels you think they are, they invented the behaviour called hooligans
 

Devill

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All over. Top of my head. London, Luton, Manchester, Glasgow, Wales, Northern Ireland, the rougher the pub the better.. :)

Mmm but that was atleast 4 years ago... if not 8 or 12.... times change mate ;)

Watching rugby in SA also was very civilized 12 years ago... The WORLD is becoming more and more "common".

Do you deny that there are these "hooligans" that don't know alot about the sport yet make the most fuss / noise in every country?
 

OzzieCapie

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As someone who has lived in both countries and still spends a fair bit of time back home...I can tell you that the Aussie supporters are much less 'concerned' about SA than you lot appear to be about them.

The 'lager' mentality comment is not far off the mark...there is this tendency or paranoia that 'everyone is against us' , 'we will show them' etc etc whereas in the press over here there is very little anti SA comment...don't tell everybody shhhhh ..they are just not that worried about you guys.

Maybe the Saffers think they still have to 'prove themselves" ...why? Let your results speak for themselves and be realistic about how those results were achieved.

...and btw, you've got to come up with a better sledge than "sheep shaggers" ...everybody knows that's the Kiwis;)
 

Mephisto_Helix

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Crap like that and this below just makes me laugh ....... They can't stand that we won the WC, won the Sevens Series and now the Lions series so they lash out in other ways .... shame, how sad they are.

On this tour it has been the Lions that have represented the great game and have been the ambassadors of world rugby - not the Springboks. The Lions have fully represented the games playing charter and especially the principle of the spirit of the game.
 
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