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Former foreign affairs minister Pik Botha dies

Joined
Jul 30, 2013
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4,589
#45
P.W. Botha was a former South African prime minister and president who maintained the racial caste system of apartheid. n 1984, Botha was elected to the South African presidency with the creation of a new constitution that would extend some political representation to the Asian and coloured (mixed ethnicity) populations, but grant no power to blacks. Domestic protest grew dramatically and Botha called a national state of emergency in 1985, where, subsequently, thousands of citizens were detained without trial....... MMMM
 

ponder

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Jan 22, 2005
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#47
Ok, I thought the President can grant such funerals as they wish to such distinguished people.
State funerals are reserved for presidents, pres elect, acting pres, former presidents and the deputies.

Official funerals are for serving ministers, speaker, members of parliament, chief justice, the deputies and wives of presidents.

I'm not sure but cyril might be able to extend this to people outside of the list by some presidential decree etc
 

thestaggy

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11,665
#48
P.W. Botha was a former South African prime minister and president who maintained the racial caste system of apartheid. n 1984, Botha was elected to the South African presidency with the creation of a new constitution that would extend some political representation to the Asian and coloured (mixed ethnicity) populations, but grant no power to blacks. Domestic protest grew dramatically and Botha called a national state of emergency in 1985, where, subsequently, thousands of citizens were detained without trial....... MMMM
That's PW, this is Pik.
 

ponder

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#49
P.W. Botha was a former South African prime minister and president who maintained the racial caste system of apartheid. n 1984, Botha was elected to the South African presidency with the creation of a new constitution that would extend some political representation to the Asian and coloured (mixed ethnicity) populations, but grant no power to blacks. Domestic protest grew dramatically and Botha called a national state of emergency in 1985, where, subsequently, thousands of citizens were detained without trial....... MMMM
This thread is about Pik botha, not PW botha. PW died 12yrs ago.
 

thechamp

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Feb 26, 2011
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13,309
#50
State funerals are reserved for presidents, pres elect, acting pres, former presidents and the deputies.

Official funerals are for serving ministers, speaker, members of parliament, chief justice, the deputies and wives of presidents.

I'm not sure but cyril might be able to extend this to people outside of the list by some presidential decree etc
Sho thanks, maybe official funeral is what I am talking about.
 
Last edited:

ponder

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Jan 22, 2005
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#52
Sho thanks, maybe official funeral is what i am talking about.
He does not qualify for that either as he's not a serving minister. chabane, molewa were serving ministers & winnie was a member of parliament at the time of their deaths thus qualify for official funerals.
 

garp

Executive Member
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Aug 2, 2004
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6,114
#53
Pik was quite an affable old curmudgeon. He was very much behind the thrust to abolish Apartheid, which I greatly respected at the time. In hindsight, while I still fully believe it was the right thing to do, I believe that he was part of a group, including FW and Roelf Meyer that rushed it without taking the time to build in sufficient safeguards for the long term. In their blind haste to abolish Apartheid, they conceded key areas such as minority protections and pure proportional representation with no component of constituency based accountability. From the vantage point of a quarter of a century later where corruption and populism threaten to destroy everything, things would have been so much better if they had not conceded to pure proportional representation, insisted on some kind of strong minority veto right and resisted any race based overrides in the constitution. At the time, they could only see a future with the re-conciliatory stance of Mandela and period with a government of national unity, and they just didn't see (or care if we're being unkind) far enough ahead.
 

thechamp

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#54
He does not qualify for that either as he's not a serving minister. chabane, molewa were serving ministers & winnie was a member of parliament at the time of their deaths thus qualify for official funerals.
It must be some special funeral of sorts then, something similar to what is usually offered to other distinguished people, I know Sobukwe's widow was given something like that.
 

Sweevo

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Jul 18, 2008
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27,056
#56
I remember listening to his apartheid speech on LP...:cautious:
P.W. Botha was a former South African prime minister and president who maintained the racial caste system of apartheid. n 1984, Botha was elected to the South African presidency with the creation of a new constitution that would extend some political representation to the Asian and coloured (mixed ethnicity) populations, but grant no power to blacks. Domestic protest grew dramatically and Botha called a national state of emergency in 1985, where, subsequently, thousands of citizens were detained without trial....... MMMM
No need to derail lol. You're getting your P. Botha's confused.
Let me guess, they all look the same to you too?
 

inanabhay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
117
#57
My grandfather respected him, had some political meetings with him decades ago and, considered him to be a good person.

It's certain that he was not racist and that he worked for the benefit of South Africa and all its people.
 

ponder

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Jan 22, 2005
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#58
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