Former SA CTO explains why he moved to the Netherlands

[Milano]

When moving to another country getting used to utilising public infrastructure seems tough for south Africans.

Also they appear oblivious to how much the alternative costs them in SA and how those costs are continually escalating. In reality it is far more preferable to use public parks in a safe country than fund corruption so you can have a large garden with a 6-foot security fence with razor wire, cctv and armed response that is still at the end of the day not safe. Thereafter pay someone twice the minimum wage to maintain it only to be labeled a privileged land thief paying slave wages.

 

[Vorastra]

"We cannot return to a place where we must have burglar bars and alarms systems, and where I am worried about the safety of my family,” he said.

...not happening in your lifetime Johan.

And where the government is actively trying to oust and work against you because you're white.

 

[Creag]

“We cannot return to a place where we must have burglar bars and alarms systems, and where I am worried about the safety of my family,” he said.

I guess he will be in the Netherlands a while yet.

 

[Milano]

I'm also finding it harder having young kids in the family now (nephews). I just want them to grow up in a safe place.

If one considers that in some nanny states not applying sunblock to your child is a punishable offence under parental neglect then raising a child in SA's criminal environment is the epitome of neglectful parenting for those with options.

 

[wizardofid]

From talking to friends they say the worst is that during the transition, you're not 100% with dutch and your Afrikaans starts to decay, leaving you in a position of where both sides are not great.

(I'd argue that you should not try to maintain the Afrikaans as you are no longer in SA, but it's understandable that you'd want to talk to your oumas back home as well)

All part of the transitioning process, it just takes time I'd guess

Yeah but that is why you prepare lol. You could have spend two months 2-3 hours a day studying, before moving and it would have been easier, given it is much easier learning a language speaking to a fluent person, still there is a fair bit you could have learned and not go over there blindly. Your friends are too blame unfortunately

Dutch is about the 4th easiest language to learn, stupidly easy compared to Afrikaans, which has significantly more complex language rules, both dutch and Afrikaans is conjunctive which would be a breeze, unlike English which is disjunctive and they would have a slightly harder time learning it.

Dutch doesn't have grammatical cases either and rules are pretty simple the only real issue is the word order.

 

[Milano]

Even though I love South Africa, I hate having to live in a prison every day. I can live with the corruption and lack of good services to some degree, yes it damn sucks, but having to daily lock yourself up in a prison cell and knowing there is no help when you need it, is what gets to me the most.

Actually I have to say that funding corruption is right up there for me with living in prison homes. It no longer sits well with me knowingly funding the various corrupt levels of government that in most instances fund violent criminal cartels. It is one thing paying double 'taxation' for public policing and private policing but once you fully recognise that you are actually funding crime directly that becomes an extremely counter-intuitive exercise beyond even the ethical issues involved in funding crime.

 

[RonSwanson]

Now that I've actually read the article, if you want to braai then just braai. I don't understand why he struggles to have a quick braai
The large homes and open spaces is certainly something to miss, but urban planning is miles ahead so personally I perceive population density as being lower in NL than in SA. Along with that there are many large parks, numerous mini parks for kids and with a short cycle you're invariably into farmlands. Thinking about it, especially as a ex Cape Townian, I miss the mountain. Not just for looking nice but so that I know where the fark I am. The lack of tall landmarks makes navigation much more difficult

In France the laws around open fires (even "official" fireplaces!) are quite draconian well-enforced compared to us here in SA. I also missed braaing when I spent some time there. Here a streetfood vendor can braai mielies on the roadside in a 20 gallon konka with a few holes punched in it, or you can braai some freshly caught fish on the beach using 3 rocks, but in France, if you need to build a fireplace you have to request permission from the local municipality and get the fire department to inspect and monitor. Not sure if this was what he was getting at because I do not know the situation in the Netherlands, but I suspect that it is similar.

 

[Milano]

In France the laws around open fires (even "official" fireplaces!) are quite draconian well-enforced compared to us here in SA. I also missed braaing when I spent some time there. Here a streetfood vendor can braai mielies on the roadside in a 20 gallon konka with a few holes punched in it, or you can braai some freshly caught fish on the beach using 3 rocks, but in France, if you need to build a fireplace you have to request permission from the local municipality and get the fire department to inspect and monitor. Not sure if this was what he was getting at because I do not know the situation in the Netherlands, but I suspect that it is similar.

There is an opportunity. Just open a braai/bbq park which exceeds all the required safety standards, is regularly inspected by the fire department, exceeds the number of required fire extinguishers and hoses, hire a full time fire marshal, and so forth. Charge the users. Someone has a business and the those who want to braai/bbq can do so.

 

[RonSwanson]

There is an opportunity. Just open a braai/bbq park which exceeds all the required safety standards, is regularly inspected by the fire department, exceeds the number of required fire extinguishers and hoses, hire a full time fire marshal, and so forth. Charge the users. Someone has a business and the those who want to braai/bbq can do so.

Mmm, like Tan' Malie se Winkel... used to be. Gone down somewhat though.

 

[Archer]

In France the laws around open fires (even "official" fireplaces!) are quite draconian well-enforced compared to us here in SA. I also missed braaing when I spent some time there. Here a streetfood vendor can braai mielies on the roadside in a 20 gallon konka with a few holes punched in it, or you can braai some freshly caught fish on the beach using 3 rocks, but in France, if you need to build a fireplace you have to request permission from the local municipality and get the fire department to inspect and monitor. Not sure if this was what he was getting at because I do not know the situation in the Netherlands, but I suspect that it is similar.

It is simple. You go into your backyard or onto your porch or to a close by public park and braai. Yes there are some parks where it is not allowed but in my area I can't think of a single one where it is not allowed. Checking online agrees, in all parks it is allowed to have a braai (called a BBQ locally)

 

[cguy]

Haha! More CTO jobs for the rest of us!

Oh, wait ...

 

[RonSwanson]

It is simple. You go into your backyard or onto your porch or to a close by public park and braai. Yes there are some parks where it is not allowed but in my area I can't think of a single one where it is not allowed. Checking online agrees, in all parks it is allowed to have a braai (called a BBQ locally)

I guess that you are not in the wooded area East of Marseilles?

 

[markings]

Let's be honest. South Africa is already a failed state.

 

[Archer]

I guess that you are not in the wooded area East of Marseilles?

Indeed. If I recall Germany also has tons of rules surrounding braais in public spaces (but I speak under correction), so it's kinda lucky that the rules for this are so relaxed in NL. But there are more than enough rules in other areas to make up for it

Like don't just pitch up at the municipality thinking you'll be helped. Make an appointment first. The benefit though is you barely need to wait at all, just arrive on time.

 

[Jameskevin]

Why I moved to the Netherlands

Former Mindset Network COO/CTO Johan Els moved to Amsterdam in January 2017 to head up Mindset Network BV and manage their international IT infrastructure.

My son moved to Netherland 18 months ago, will not be returning to South Africa crime, transport system, and travel opportunity.

 

[G.A.S]

My family in the Netherlands sent me this

 

[vic777]

Yeah but that is why you prepare lol. You could have spend two months 2-3 hours a day studying, before moving and it would have been easier, given it is much easier learning a language speaking to a fluent person, still there is a fair bit you could have learned and not go over there blindly. Your friends are too blame unfortunately

Dutch is about the 4th easiest language to learn, stupidly easy compared to Afrikaans, which has significantly more complex language rules, both dutch and Afrikaans is conjunctive which would be a breeze, unlike English which is disjunctive and they would have a slightly harder IU time learning it.

Dutch doesn't have grammatical cases either and rules are pretty simple the only real issue is the word order.

Dutch easy compared to Afrikaans?

Nonsense

Onregelmatige werkwoorden
Lidwoorden - de vs. het
Perfectum vs inperfectum, in fact, present, present perfect, imperfect, perfect, past, past perfect, future, future perfect
Things like we/wij vs. ons

 

[Aghori]

Lies and deception.

He moved to the Netherlands because of the slavic women, good quality zol and the low crime rate.

 

[VooDooC]

Like don't just pitch up at the municipality thinking you'll be helped. Make an appointment first. The benefit though is you barely need to wait at all, just arrive on time.

Well here you also can't pitch up at the municipality and expect to be helped.

 

[Aghori]

A lot depends on where you live. I live in a tiny surfing village and crime here is pretty low. I often dont even lock my door at night.

When I lived in Jozi or Cape Town I could never do this.

Ah you live in Orania.