Foxconn: China plant closed after clash involving 2,000

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
The slavery at Foxconn makes companies like Apple (and especially Apple) and those that own stock very very rich. Apple can afford to pay more for the production of their products (and still do well with a little less profit) and demand better conditions to be implemented ... but the rich investors will disagree. Profit comes before love, respect, dignity, etc.
 

sand_man

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
30,164
Surely it's the responsibility of the Chinese government to dictate and audit working conditions in its country? Apple paying more for the production of its products will only serve to further enrich the owners of Foxconn.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
50,754
The slavery at Foxcon.
Emotive language like that is a bit stupid, and makes you appear a little ignorant of the situation.

You are aware that Foxconn pays higher than the average Chinese wage, and they will be matching the Taiwanese minimum wage at their mainland plants from this year (probably doing so under pressure from western influences including Apple).

You don't pay "slaves".

Google it, for example - http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/05/28/apples-foxconn-to-double-wages-again/

Taiwanese electronics manufacturing giant Foxconn will double the minimum monthly salary of its workers in mainland China by the end of next year, reports our Chinese-language sister paper Want Daily.

Earlier this month in Shanghai, Foxconn chairman and president Terry Gou announced that the company’s salaries in China will exceed the minimum wage in Taiwan by the end of the year. .
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
Dave123, it makes me emotive so my language will reflect that and if I sound stupid for it then so be it.

In my books it is slavery. You call it what you like and what your concience allows. My conscience calls it slavery. People are abused so that those with the means can have their precious iPhone 5's on time. That the workers get a pathetic wage does not make it right. Reports on the poor treatment of "staff" is easy to get. Hatred towards the West is growing ... and when the day of reckoning comes we must not feel victimised.
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
Look at Apple's profit taking ... and then compare it to what you know is happening in China ... and tell me nothing is wrong with that picture. Profit is king.
 

ToxicBunny

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
89,891
BeVonk, your distaste for the way these guys operate is clear, and understandable.

But also understand that FoxConn employs LOTS of people, and pays them well and treats them a crap load better than most companies in China treat their employees.
 

ToxicBunny

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
89,891
Look at Apple's profit taking ... and then compare it to what you know is happening in China ... and tell me nothing is wrong with that picture. Profit is king.
Ummm FoxConn bid for Apple's business, so go and look at FoxConn if you want to blame anyone. Apple are actually pressuring FoxConn to improve their employee's working conditions.
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
BeVonk, your distaste for the way these guys operate is clear, and understandable.

But also understand that FoxConn employs LOTS of people, and pays them well and treats them a crap load better than most companies in China treat their employees.
It may well be that Foxconn does better than others/most. It's just when one sees the most valuable company in the world with massive profit margins taking advantage of cheap labour that one sees a difference here ... we're not talking about making cheap shoes here sold at cheap prices worldwide ... we are talking about some of the most expensive items in their markets made by cheap labour and sold at top of class prices to maximise profits.
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
Ummm FoxConn bid for Apple's business, so go and look at FoxConn if you want to blame anyone. Apple are actually pressuring FoxConn to improve their employee's working conditions.
I'm very familiar with how bidding processes work and how the focus on cheapest leads to the abuse of people.

I am the crazy one on here. I know. Deep end, and all that.
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
How much do Apple plow back into these communities to improve their lives, or in any other community?

I use Apple here because they are by far Foxconn's biggest customer and is the most valuable company in the world. They deserve to get the spotlight thrown on them.
 

ToxicBunny

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
89,891
How much do Apple plow back into these communities to improve their lives, or in any other community?

I use Apple here because they are by far Foxconn's biggest customer and is the most valuable company in the world. They deserve to get the spotlight thrown on them.
Are you sure about Apple being by far Foxconn's biggest customer?

I am not doubting they're big, but biggest, I think that might be debatable.
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
Let me put it another way ... if one were to create an Average Wage vs Selling Price equation to measure workforce abuse Apple will probably top the list by some margin (as with all their margins). BeVonk! having another anti-Apple fit? Yes. Apple has become for me thé symbol of what is wrong with our world and the West in particular. The company is morally bankrupt but very rich in worldly terms.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
50,754
How much do Apple plow back into these communities to improve their lives, or in any other community?

I use Apple here because they are by far Foxconn's biggest customer and is the most valuable company in the world. They deserve to get the spotlight thrown on them.
Apple don't own Foxconn, they have no more power over Foxconn than any company does over its suppliers. They can threaten to take their business elsewhere, but ultimately Foxconn and China are responsible for their own human rights. Foxconn does better than the great majority of Chinese companies.
 

ToxicBunny

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
89,891
Actually no... your little equation would be wrong... because you're not taking into account the supply chain... Apple do not directly pay the wages in the factories.

You would need to look at Foxconn's selling price for your equation to have any relevance.

Yes you're having an Apple fit, but at least try and stay within the confines of reality when you do it...
 

BeVonk!

Executive Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
8,505
My equation wouldn't be wrong. If Foxconn didn't have the lowest wage rates it could not have won the bid. That companies bid for the work and the cheapest bidder gets it makes my equation valid. Apple could handle this differently to ensure better working conditions. Why the suicides and worker actions? People then wonder why their new iPhone 5's come to market with scuffs, scratches and dents? It's the slaves way of saying f-ck you!
 

ToxicBunny

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
89,891
My equation wouldn't be wrong. If Foxconn didn't have the lowest wage rates it could not have won the bid. That companies bid for the work and the cheapest bidder gets it makes my equation valid. Apple could handle this differently to ensure better working conditions. Why the suicides and worker actions? People then wonder why their new iPhone 5's come to market with scuffs, scratches and dents? It's the slaves way of saying f-ck you!
You are wrong, Foxconn doesn't have the lowest wage rates... if anything their wage rates in China are much higher than the norm and will be aligned with Taiwan's minimum wage rates in the near future thanks to Apple...
 

undesign

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
9,012
I suppose the Galaxy III also comes out scuffed...

Samsung Accused of Using Child Labor via Supplier, Promises Investigation

...Apple's own yearly audits acknowledge such issues -- such as occasional child labor violations.

But it's hardly alone. Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930), the world's top smartphone maker, is now being forced to answer similar tough questions. A report by the advocacy group China Labor Watch accused its supplier HEG Electronics of using child labor at a plant in Huizhou, China.
...
In a way Samsung has benefited from secrecy. The company does not publish the results of its internal labor audits, while Apple does. Thus much of the criticism leveled at Apple has been due to that company's willingness to share just how sordid the dark side of Chinese manufacturers are.

In most cases these violations boil down to manufacturers cutting corners, looking to pad their profits by pushing employees to work conditions considered "inhumane" by American and European standards.
...
This is evidenced by the fact that even amid outrage from American advocacies regarding labor conditions, their virtually never a shortage of willing workers in China, given the fact that the alternatives too the "rough" factory life are, in reality, often far worse.

Link: http://www.dailytech.com/Samsung+Ac...plier+Promises+Investigation/article25358.htm
 

undesign

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
9,012
You are wrong, Foxconn doesn't have the lowest wage rates... if anything their wage rates in China are much higher than the norm and will be aligned with Taiwan's minimum wage rates in the near future thanks to Apple...
Don't come here with your facts and grasp of actual commercial relationships...
 
Top