Friendly warning from ISPA to FNOs - end forced fibre speed upgrades

[Emjay]

It's the FNOs. Almost all of them.

Since downgrades are normally rare, ISPs price them into everyone's monthly rental. So you help pay for other people's downgrades.

But with the forced upgrades the FNOs are doing, ISPs have to eat it or piss off the customers.

Upgrades and downgrades should be free from the FNOs side. It's not like humans on their side have to do anything. It's all automated.

You have experience in setting ISP and FNO pricing? And understand how to upgrade / downgrade customers?

 

[Emjay]

It is covered in the article and there is a link in the article to another specific article about it:

Frogfoot charges R750 to downgrade after hiking prices

Frogfoot charges ISPs a penalty fee for each customer that downgrades from a faster to a slower package. At least one ISP has confirmed it will levy this fee on its customers.

mybroadband.co.za

Not all FNOs do this that is why I made specific mention in my comment limiting it to "the specific consumers it affects"

Yeah, that's not great.

 

[Moto Guzzi]

Stop forced fibre speed upgrades

The Internet Service Providers’ Association of SA (ISPA) has cautioned fibre network operators (FNOs) against forcing fibre upgrades on consumers.

“While upgrades advertising ‘more for the same price’, for example, are indeed good news for most consumers, FNOs shouldn’t assume forced upgrades make sense for everyone,” the association said.

Interesting, I had very few ADSL problems over many years, not interested in ultra high speed, however I receive hundreds of calls about fibre deals, and that the ADSL is going to be cut end of march 2023, your service gone.
So I should receive Fibre shortly.......However they made a mess in the streets.

 

[Intox]

Yeah, that's not great.

It's not just Frogfoot either, below from Afrihost on Openserve.

While Afrihost may be able to absorb such losses, smaller ISPs will struggle.

With regards to absorbing costs. These changes come at a hefty downgrade fee that is charged to us. Each downgrade will set us back just short of R1000.

 

[AfriNatic]

It's not just Frogfoot either, below from Afrihost on Openserve.

While Afrihost may be able to absorb such losses, smaller ISPs will struggle.

I can't disclose but to put it in perspective for clients.

There are 2 FNO's that charge just short of R1000 per downgrade. There are other FNO's that also charge for downgrades but the amount is relatively low. Then there is also FNO's with 30 days cancellation terms and although Afrihost does not lock clients into contracts when clients cancel we absorb the cost of 1-month line rental from the FNO.

With all the challenges, we are trying our best not to increase prices and keep connectivity as low as possible.

 

[Pierremont]

Forced unwanted speed upgrades to justify price increases… it’s a disgrace whichever way you try to spin it…
Ugly, manipulative, distasteful…
So now that you have what you want, try to focus on performance… because, to be frank, it’s dismal…

 

[Sapphiron]

You have experience in setting ISP and FNO pricing? And understand how to upgrade / downgrade customers?

Yes

 

[SeaSickMama]

For 1-2 people, sure. But it's a bit trickier in a full house where someone's streaming (Apple TV+ even peaks upto 40Mbps), another is on Facebook, another is on Tiktok, etc.

Game downloads are another thing. There's a big difference in an evening when you sit down to play Warzone but the 50Gb Season 2.0 update dropped which takes under 30min on 300Mbps instead of almost 4 hours on 50Mbps.

No if you play alot of games and the household is big on streaming then 100mbps is ideal beyond that is nice. Although yeah I have 1Gbps for literally my gaming and then the odd streaming. Its a waste but nice when I need the speed.
Plus its a business expense for me company pays it

 

[SeaSickMama]

For the average home yes, for gaming no I also do 1Gbps but yeah its overkill for just about every home.
But yeah my cyber work it needs the speed is what I tell the company LOL

 

[SeaSickMama]

It's a friendly warning because ISPA has no power to enforce it...

The worst part of these forced upgrades are the hefty downgrade fee FNO's force ISP's to pay.

We must eat

 

[Polymathic]

Forced unwanted speed upgrades to justify price increases… it’s a disgrace whichever way you try to spin it…
Ugly, manipulative, distasteful…
So now that you have what you want, try to focus on performance… because, to be frank, it’s dismal…

Would you rather they just increase their prices without increasing speeds?

 

[Gaz{M}]

There is a floor price to provide a fibre line. Just because it is slower, say 10 Mbps, doesn't mean it is cheaper to provide than a 40Mb or 100Mb service.

GPON is highly contended (shared) amongst 64 to 128 subscribers, so the fixed costs and backhaul are very small components of the price. It is the physical installation and labour that costs the most.

All the components are purchased in US Dollars. Have you seen the exchange rates lately? Price increases are essential, and increasing your speed for free is the only way to give more value at the higher cost to provide.

 

[Pitbull]

Yes by increasing the line speeds, it benefits both the consumers who want to pay less ( who knows have the option to downgrade) and those who just want an increase in line speeds and don't want to pay extra for it.

It's a win/win for both type of consumers, so STFU.

Not true actually.

What if you signed a contract for X amount of months at R800 as an example? So the line speed upgrade keeps you at the agreed contract rate right? But what is you want the original speed but pay less then? I know there are arguments to both sides, but what if people took the speed they needed out of necessity at a higher price, and can now get the speed the actually want at a reduced speed?

 

[Emjay]

Yes

FNOs do not price "downgrades" into the price. The most important financial metric is ARPU. Also, upgrades and downgrades are not fully automated. There is a massive amount of work to be done on the product catalogue side, migration of the customers to their new, upgraded product and then changes on the network side to ensure that those customers are getting their new speeds. Some of it is automated via scripting, but it is far from a simple process.

Downgrades are also not rare. I have seen downgrades in 5 to 10% of a customer base after package adjustments. That is hardly rare.

 

[seanogilvie]

I just received a letter from Mweb telling me my price is going up to R559 and my line to a 40/20mbps with no option to stay on what I've got. I think this is nonsense.

 

[Sapphiron]

FNOs do not price "downgrades" into the price. The most important financial metric is ARPU. Also, upgrades and downgrades are not fully automated. There is a massive amount of work to be done on the product catalogue side, migration of the customers to their new, upgraded product and then changes on the network side to ensure that those customers are getting their new speeds. Some of it is automated via scripting, but it is far from a simple process.

Downgrades are also not rare. I have seen downgrades in 5 to 10% of a customer base after package adjustments. That is hardly rare.

My experience is more on the ISP side.

That said the small ISP I have worked with that operate their own FTTH networks do have things very much automated. Their billing platform updates the package the customer is on, then the radius gets updated by the billing system and the new bandwidth profile is delivered to the OLT via script from the billing system.

Technicians only do a monthly audit to make sure the profiles match what the billing system has configured. Its rare that something to be out, unless there was an outage at the time the scripts were to be delivered to the OLT.

Lastly, downgrades used to be rare. Its only since these forced upgrades that downgrades have increased dramatically.

 

[stefan9]

I'll take the lower contention ratios, and also less buffering due to alledged flooded caches and possible contention

Must be with a different isp then me. Never had that due speed upgrades or a higher priced charged for the new speed either.

I do feel for those who want to downgrade but are forced to pay a penalty.

 

[stefan9]

Or just decrease the price like other countries do and if people want to upgrade they can do so.


40Mbps is over the top. Nobody notices it and it's not something SA needs. Just limit every device so it does not have an impact on the others' experience. Also downloads can be scheduled and delayed so just wait till after playing and let it update.


They don't but still sometimes the lower tiers either fall away or cost more as well so if there's one that's cheaper it's now slower than what you signed up for. This is blatant breach of contract and should be brought under the consumer commission's attention. It mostly affects those on the lower or entry tiers.

We should also have standard tiers that scale and not these weird ones like 150Mbps. The fact it's becoming as convoluted as the banks' charges used to be shows networks are busy with scaly tactics to try and squeeze every bit out of consumers that they can. No wonder 4G and 5G is the preferred choice.

If it's a steam or mmo you can't play till you have upgraded, so not an option for everyone...

 

[supersunbird]

Yes by increasing the line speeds, it benefits both the consumers who want to pay less ( who knows have the option to downgrade) and those who just want an increase in line speeds and don't want to pay extra for it.

It's a win/win for both type of consumers, so STFU.

And those downgrade fees that get charged? So it's not always win/win and not only they should STFU...

 

[Polymathic]

And those downgrade fees that get charged? So it's not always win/win and not only they should STFU...

I had no idea the likes Frogfoot charged frikk'n R750 to downgrade. I'm feeling like I should've STFU now.