FTTH price hikes expected in 2025

This is happening exactly as I said it would. And the same armchair warriors are complaining, as usual.



Please explain to us how FNOs should keep servicing you for cheaper when it is subject to the exact same economic conditions? If you can help me build a telco business model that insulates its operations from the micro and macro environment, I will put you in front of investors who will pay you for your ideas.
What economic conditions are they subject to exactly, they are not a manufacturer where costs of production is affected by exterior factors. They are a services business where they've already laid out their networks and if done correctly (unlike FrogFoot) those costs should've been recuperated, they aren't compelled to invest enormous amounts to get off the ground anymore, costs of te equipment used has been dropping very fast over the last 2 years, the Rand has been fairly stable over that period....so what are they facing exactly? Cost of borrowing? Maintenance costs?
 
The ISPs load additional charges on these prices before selling them to end-users to cover their operational costs — including maintaining customer support channels and marketing.

They also have to add a profit margin on the prices to make for a viable business.
This is incomplete. The FNO portion of the line, is only the connection between you and your ISP. They still need to provide you with internet access, be that local and international, as well as maintaining systems like DNS, authentication and billing.
 
Time to downgrade my fibre line, wanted to do it with the previous price increase already. Wonder how much FrogFoot is going to charge me for a downgrade.

Edit: Decided to not downgrade if the increase is less than R100, which it is :)
 
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What economic conditions are they subject to exactly, they are not a manufacturer where costs of production is affected by exterior factors. They are a services business where they've already laid out their networks and if done correctly (unlike FrogFoot) those costs should've been recuperated, they aren't compelled to invest enormous amounts to get off the ground anymore, costs of te equipment used has been dropping very fast over the last 2 years, the Rand has been fairly stable over that period....so what are they facing exactly? Cost of borrowing? Maintenance costs?

How long do you think these networks take to pay off? OpenServ is very different, as their build model and their capital requirements are vastly different to all the other FNOs. It takes decades. While these companies have to service their debt, keep reinvesting in their networks and rollouts (customer churn and depreciation is a real thing) they are subject to the same inflation as you are. FNOs are also complex businesses that require scarce skills and resources. Do you think running these networks is cheap or that these costs are fixed?

How long do you think it takes to pay back just the direct costs to install your fibre link i.e. the costs of your access built, ONT, router and installation? Tell us how long you think it takes. Now, when you have that figure in your mind, consider what it costs to build the core network and run it. When is it acceptable in your mind for FNOs to start making money? From year 2? Year 5? Year 10? Now, tell us if you were a business owner would you run a business if you were not getting returns for years after risking your own capital?

Another question: what do you think the cost of capital is? 5% 10%? 20%? If you do not understand why this is relevant, suggest you sharpen your financial skills and use ChatGPT to give you a quick lesson.
 
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Time to downgrade my fibre line, wanted to do it with the previous price increase already. Wonder how much FrogFoot is going to charge me for a downgrade.
i don't understand the charge to downgrade but no charge to upgrade?
 
i don't understand the charge to downgrade but no charge to upgrade?

There is a cost involved to go out and replace your DSL card at the 'sentrale'... oh wait, that was ADSL. If it is not that, then it only leaves: moneygrab?

Place barriers to downgrade and cancel but remove them for upgrades and signups. I swear I hear the CPA knocking on the door, brb
 
How long do you think these networks take to pay off? OpenServ is very different, as their build model and their capital requirements are vastly different to all the other FNOs. It takes decades. While these companies have to service their debt, keep reinvesting in their networks and rollouts (customer churn and depreciation is a real thing) they are subject to the same inflation as you are. FNOs are also complex businesses that require scarce skills and resources. Do you think running these networks is cheap or that these costs are fixed?

How long do you think it takes to pay back just the direct costs to install your fibre link i.e. the costs of your access built, ONT, router and installation? Tell us how long you think it takes. Now, when you have that figure in your mind, consider what it costs to build the core network and run it. When is it acceptable in your mind for FNOs to start making money? From year 2? Year 5? Yeah 10? Now, tell us if you were a business owner would you run a business if you were not getting returns for years after risking your own capital?

Another question: what do you think the cost of capital is? 5% 10%? 20%? If you do not understand why this is relevant, suggest you sharpen your financial skills and use ChatGPT to give you a quick lesson.
10000% this. MFckers on this forum bitch about their yearly increases and the costs of everything increasing but somehow think that fibre companies are paying the same prices for everything since they started a decade ago. Maybe some examples will help them:

  • Rand is worse now than 10 years ago, any networking equipment, fibre cables, splicers etc. is going to cost more since majority (all most likely) is imported. Network rollout was not all done on the first day, there is a constant need to import these for new builds, repairs and network improvements.
  • Petrol costs more, how do think their technicians and equipment is transported around the country.
  • Electricity to run their nodes, data centres and offices costs a lot more.
  • Vehicles cost a lot more, as does maintenance of them.
  • Employees cost a lot more, or does everyone here think that they don't need increases for inflation?
Cost per Mb will probably continue to creep downwards but the cost of a base package will not decrease. There is a certain minimum cost for an installed connection, regardless of the speed provided.

IMO if any increases are below inflation then prices have actually come down, some aren't smart enough to realise that.
 
How long do you think these networks take to pay off? OpenServ is very different, as their build model and their capital requirements are vastly different to all the other FNOs. It takes decades. While these companies have to service their debt, keep reinvesting in their networks and rollouts (customer churn and depreciation is a real thing) they are subject to the same inflation as you are. FNOs are also complex businesses that require scarce skills and resources. Do you think running these networks is cheap or that these costs are fixed?

How long do you think it takes to pay back just the direct costs to install your fibre link i.e. the costs of your access built, ONT, router and installation? Tell us how long you think it takes. Now, when you have that figure in your mind, consider what it costs to build the core network and run it. When is it acceptable in your mind for FNOs to start making money? From year 2? Year 5? Year 10? Now, tell us if you were a business owner would you run a business if you were not getting returns for years after risking your own capital?

Another question: what do you think the cost of capital is? 5% 10%? 20%? If you do not understand why this is relevant, suggest you sharpen your financial skills and use ChatGPT to give you a quick lesson.
So are you telling me, these FNO's cannot make money? If everything is So onerous and hard then why are they in business?....as for recouping costs on initial infrastructure and rollouts that's an average of 7 to 10 years. However that's a once off fixed cost. You do not need to do it again (again if done correctly), maintenance costs cannot be equivalent to deployment costs. Staffing costs is not as high as other industries, you do not need a large staff, we all know they outsource most of the work anyway. You can't justify annual increases beyond inflation unless you're bad at the business.

What is in FNOs favour is the de facto monopoly's they have in the neighborhoods they cornered. That's the only reason they feel they are immune to pricing pressure. Btw customer churn can be reduced if you value your customers.

Also thanks for the suggestion on Chatgpt, guess you're a pro in it.
 
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So are you telling me, these FNO's cannot make money? If everything is So onerous and hard then why are they in business?....as for recouping costs on initial infrastructure and rollouts that's an average of 7 to 10 years. However that's a once off fixed cost. You do not need to do it again (again if done correctly), maintenance costs cannot be equivalent to deployment costs. Staffing costs is not as high as other industries, you do not need a large staff, we all know they outsource most of the work anyway. You can't justify annual increases beyond inflation unless you're bad at the business.

What is in FNOs favour is the de facto monopoly's they have in the neighborhoods they cornered. That's the only reason they feel they are immune to pricing pressure. Btw customer churn can be reduced if you value your customers.

Also thanks for the suggestion on Chatgpt, guess you're a pro in it.

I see you cannot answer a single question on paybacks or cost of capital, and you think you understand what it takes to run an infrastructure business? Answer any of my questions and I will concede.

Sweety, I have a Masters in economics. I have been in this industry for a while now and seen multiple business models. Thanks for playing though.

Edit:

Btw customer churn can be reduced if you value your customers.

*facepalm*
 
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I see you cannot answer a single question on paybacks or cost of capital, and you think you understand what it takes to run an infrastructure business? Answer any of my questions and I concede.

Sweety, I have a Masters in economics. I have been in this industry for a while now and seen multiple business models. Thanks for playing though.
I don't need you to concede my friend, my argument doesn't depend on converting.

I won't answer those particular questions either, unless you can prove that there's no inefficiency in how South African FNO's are run and all these supposed costs are unavoidable.

But you won't, you'll just go on telling me how stupid and uneducated I am lol
 
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I don't need you to concede my friend, my argument doesn't depend on converting.

I won't answer those particular questions either, unless you can prove that there's no inefficiency in how South African FNO's are run and all these supposed costs are unavoidable.

But you won't, you'll just go on telling me how stupid and uneducated I am lol

I am not your friend.

And you won't answer because you cannot. You are trying to lecture me on value proposition when I am explaining the financial realities of FNOs.

You talk about the market and market structure, but what you will not address is that the market is paying these prices. If you are not happy with your value proposition, use a cheaper alternative that fits in your budget. The only way to signal to the market that these prices are not acceptable is to not pay them.

Also, you think you understand the market structure, but you do not. Open access networks change the game. And FNOs are not going to overbuild each other because the business cases will never be acceptable to investors. They can use their capital elsewhere for better, and less risky, returns.
 
I am not your friend.

And you won't answer because you cannot. You are trying to lecture me on value proposition when I am explaining the financial realities of FNOs.

You talk about the market and market structure, but what you will not address is that the market is paying these prices. If you are not happy with your value proposition, use a cheaper alternative that fits in your budget. The only way to signal to the market that these prices are not acceptable is to not pay them.

Also, you think you understand the market structure, but you do not. Open access networks change the game. And FNOs are not going to overbuild each other because the business cases will never be acceptable to investors. They can use their capital elsewhere for better, and less risky, returns.
Wow, guess I lost another friend.....so sad

Good luck staying employed though bud.
 
I am ok on the employment front for a while, thank you. In fact, the next 5 years are going to be very interesting time in this game.
About the next 5 years, what's your opinion on automation and AGI impact?

Interested to get a normal South African's thoughts.

Especially now that SA has been increased to a tier 2 restriction by the Biden admin.
 
If a price increase will mean increased Capex/better staffing from Frogfoot then I'm all for it.
 
This is happening exactly as I said it would. And the same armchair warriors are complaining, as usual.



Please explain to us how FNOs should keep servicing you for cheaper when it is subject to the exact same economic conditions? If you can help me build a telco business model that insulates its operations from the micro and macro environment, I will put you in front of investors who will pay you for your ideas.
Well aren't you prophetic :ROFL:
 
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