GBV: We as men are the problem, says Springboks legend Bryan Habana

[surface]

Is it like the colonialism argument? Men have brought so much to the world that a little bit of GBV here and there is okay.

Correct. Can you not ignore some trivial naughtiness in exchange of good things.

 

[Sinbad]

I'd argue that the possibility of paying maintenance without visitation right is 100% fair. If you are an abusive prick, then you should not be inflicted on your kids. However, that does not absolve you of your responsibility to provide for them.

 

[Willie Trombone]

I don’t think so.
I really don’t.
I do not think all Men are abusers and rapists
I think many men was raised by a woman who taught them they were king and are entitled to everything they want. And anything they can take.
I think it has to do with who and how you were raised. Toxic masculinity is taught by woman to men.

by saying that isn’t true is taking away from the power woman has always had over men.

woman teach boys to not cry and tell them be like xyz and boys either pick this role model or pick one that the media gives them.
We all can do better.

stop blaming men, woman raised them.
we are all to blame.
We can all be better.
This is way more complex than blaming men.

I think a big part of the problem is that the system is designed to remove the father from the development equation.

As much as i'd like to think i'm not a GBVer, perhaps I haven't yet found myself in the situation where I find out otherwise? I don't think men grow up planning to be GBVers. I can only hope that I never end up being one but can we truly know what we're capable of or who we are inside? I've watched plenty of Discovery Crime and C&I channel to see that many men who GBVed had previously not shown any signs or indications or had a history to suggest that this is who they were. A lot of time it came as a complete shock to everyone that knew them.

Have you told your woman that you're determined to never best her despite the temptation?

That said I hear what you're saying. We are all human and have potential to abuse. Women included.

 

[Nicodeamus]

@abzo how many times have you raised your hands for a women?

In the World where personal experience seems to matter, perhaps you can enlighten us on how you dealt with the grief.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I'd argue that the possibility of paying maintenance without visitation right is 100% fair. If you are an abusive prick, then you should not be inflicted on your kids. However, that does not absolve you of your responsibility to provide for them.

100% agreed...

But I know of more than a few instances where a father has zero visitation rights and is decidedly not an abusive prick.... All he wants is to be involved in his childs life and be the Dad...

 

[Pox]

Men are 5x more likely to be murdered than woman.

The GBV movement is protecting the wrong gender.

 

[Biscuit1018]

My interest is piqued. How do we go from (1) acknowledging that we’re the problem (done), to (2) reducing the rate of femicide and rape? I'm happy to do part 1, but I can't see the follow-through to part 2.

As far as I’m aware, I don’t have rapists or wife-beaters in my own social circles, and I'm not about to go preach to strangers to stop beating their wives.

I am sure you don't have such people in your circles. Neither do I.

But it is like racism.
Surely you have heard someone at a braai refer to women in a derogatory way?
Surely you have witnessed or heard about an acquaintance treat their wife or girlfriend in a way that is demeaning and domineering.

Now I can't say what you should do, because it depends on the circumstances.
Sometimes silence is better.
Sometimes we should speak up

 

[Nicodeamus]

Van Skynheiligheid is die kerke leeg en die tronke vol.

 

[rietrot]

Too many real men deflecting from the topic at hand. Why are they afraid to confront the realities of GBV?

@Ancalagon you’ve addressed the same point that @Nicodeamus has. It’s easy enough to say “have a father!” What if someone is a widow? What if those kids have no father figure in their life? I would like to hear your thoughts.

Another clear example of how stupid identity politics is.

For the sake of equality, because some boys don't have fathers it becomes problematic to encourage men to be good fathers.

Everyone needs to lower their standards to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Sinbad]

100% agreed...

But I know of more than a few instances where a father has zero visitation rights and is decidedly not an abusive prick.... All he wants is to be involved in his childs life and be the Dad...

I know. I was considering putting a disclaimer on my post about "yeah I know some women are evil and use the kids as a mechanism to punish the father" and similar. No way I condone that - but I can't agree with the blanket statement that was made and therefore I posited a specific counter argument.

 

[R13...]

Not as funny as those who scrounge for things to further/push a particular agenda.

I'm sure our boy Vrotappel wasn't tryina push no particular agendas.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I know. I was considering putting a disclaimer on my post about "yeah I know some women are evil and use the kids as a mechanism to punish the father" and similar. No way I condone that - but I can't agree with the blanket statement that was made and therefore I posited a specific counter argument.

Fair play, and yeah I agree.

Unfortunately nothing in this world is as simple as the black and white picture we would like it to be at times.

 

[Sinbad]

Fair play, and yeah I agree.

Unfortunately nothing in this world is as simple as the black and white picture we would like it to be at times.

/reports racism

 

[azbob]

I am sure you don't have such people in your circles. Neither do I.

But it is like racism.
Surely you have heard someone at a braai refer to women in a derogatory way?
Surely you have witnessed or heard about an acquaintance treat their wife or girlfriend in a way that is demeaning and domineering.

Now I can't say what you should do, because it depends on the circumstances.
Sometimes silence is better.
Sometimes we should speak up

That is a major problem, women abuse is mocked here too.

A woman was shot and killed. It was asked why men are so angry and what the problem is?

Someone said the problem is women....

All South African men?
All men?

BTW - the answer is "women".

Husband in court after shooting wife 'thinking it was an intruder'

#WomxnLivesMatters

mybroadband.co.za

 

[Ponderer]

People can be bad and/or good.
The gender of the person has nothing to do with it.

There is nothing better than a good woman.
There is nothing worse than a bad woman.

 

[ToxicBunny]

/reports racism

FFS.. from you!

I expected that from others

 

[Herr der Verboten]

/reports racism

/reports racism reporter

 

[TelkomUseless]

Not all men beat women. This is like telling a druggie to stop using, an alcoholic to stop drinking...(women beaters will continue, they don't care)

Then setup an environment (woman shelters) for women to flee (I know they exist, but improve them). And TEACH women if a man raises his hand , get out. No second chances etc. Teach them from young age to help themselves.

You can't control people, but you can control yourself. So let women be able to help themselves.

 

[LCBXX]

Sports people, celebs and politicians trying to be woke is a bigger problem than GBV.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'd argue that the possibility of paying maintenance without visitation right is 100% fair. If you are an abusive prick, then you should not be inflicted on your kids. However, that does not absolve you of your responsibility to provide for them.

No.

If you're abusive, you go to prison. Your wife proves that you are abusive, and you spend time in jail, and because of that, you cannot see your children.

But this has to go to court. You have to be found guilty. A judge has to agree.

It cannot simply be, he is a man and the mother said she doesn't him to see the kids. No, wrong. They are both the parents. Unless one of them is mentally ill or a criminal, then they both have EQUAL rights. You cannot just make an accusation of abuse - which is what countless mothers do. You have to prove it, in a court of law.

The law should not take sides, but it does now.