General rant about hardware prices

[LethalChicken]

Hey all, just wanted to get some feedback on what people's thoughts are on hardware prices.

I seriously need an upgrade to my PC and for a decent (not TOL) PC I'm looking on close to R15000. This from a PC side might not sound like too much, but here is the thing.

I just bought plascon paint to paint the inside of my house, all the brushes and other stuff. Price - LESS then a 7900GT ... so paint the whole house or buy just a graphics card (and never mind the fact that there are things like the 7950GTX which if u unlucky can hit R10k.

I bought a fridge - nice big 420L LG fridge - R5000 ... or I could have gotten HALF an AMD 62FX. Or with the new Core 2 Duo I'll get HALF of the E6800.

Now I realise that PCs and electronics is difficult and delicate work, but when you compare the price of PCs to the price of most other things in life, it's just DAMN scary.

 

[freeek]

Agree'd to some extent, but you are comparing standard grade to higher grade

Compare a R60000 alaminum fridge to AMD 62FX then it should fall into place.

 

[LethalChicken]

yeah but when a major applience is a fraction of the price of one computer component, that's just scary

 

[werner]

what i find weird is that if you tally up the most expensive items on your pc build, the following is probably the order (average pc, highest cost to lowest cost, assuming all parts are legitimately acquired)

cpu---intel or amd
gfx card -- ati or nvidia
operating system-- microsoft

all those companies (apart from ati..but they are canadian) are american.
the chinese/japanese/taiwanese companies can produce a motherboard with southbridge, northbridge, sata raid controllers, audio and firewire chips, for far less than the americans companies can make a even a single cpu. yes, i know the complexity does cater for some price variance, but the main cost is the silicon wafer. a southbridge probably uses the same amount of silicon as a cpu (and the fabs are located all over the place, so you have to assume man-power/production cost is equal for all the players)

for the far east, you have the impression that economies of scale kick in...sell more, reduce cost etc.
the american companies seem to like keeping the prices and profits high, irrespective of the actual cost of the product.

if you see what effort, parts and quality control goes into making a motherboard, then you have to wonder how they can sell some of them for like R400...amazing...yet i can also argue that intel/amd make vastly higher quantities of cpu compared to e.g. gigabyte making a specific model motherboard (the intel/amd cpu's are speed binned, so effectively all the same part) so it would seem to make sense that the cpu prices should be LOWER than motherboards, as there are loads of different models of mb around...hmmm....food for thought.

 

[Ekhaatvensters]

Yah i realised this when I bought my new speakers... R1500. Plus a soundcard for R350 (I had no cash left)

Now these are quality 2.1 speakers, but I was going to have a hardware upgrade instead. But I realised I cant even get a decent graphics card or CPU for the price of a pro audio system. I could have got some ram and maby a cheap new HDD.

But honestly I totally agree with the poster. I could get a damn nice guitar (only other thing i know about) for R8000. Or I could get a graphics card, or even worse a CPU. And the guitar is almost hand made. Its just crazy, you could even get a cheap second hand car for the price of a top graphics card or CPU.
How are the prices justified, shureley it cant really cost R10000 to make either of these?

 

[nGAGEd55]

For them it doesn't matter how much it costs to make, as long as enough people buy the stuff so that they make maximum profit from the lowest possible cost.

 

[hennievr]

I'm sure it's not the costs of the manufacturing that make it expensive but the exchange rate. Take for instance that a PC will cost the same in Zimbabwe, but because of the high inflation you as the person on the street will not be able to even buy the stiffy drive. So if the Rand can come to a reasonable price the import costs will be lower and therefor the prices can drop. The other factor that we can look at is to manufacture it ourselves, but our labour rates are to expensive and will not justify the price we will pay then

 

[Ap0c]

I dont think its the exchange rate, nor the manufacturing cost. Has anybody though about the amount of money spend on R&D ? Intel spends $4.8 billion evey year on R&D. You think they should just write that off and sell cpu's for $2 each ?

Its very short sighted to compare fridges, and other appliances to the cost of a CPU. The price you pay is market related. Thats how much it costs. There is no monopoly on these items, the price you pay is 'FAIR MARKET VALUE'.

Next time you want to setup a database, or use a spreadsheet. Try doing that with some cans of paint....

 

[swordfish1]

you can't compare graphics cards with fridges or paint!

there is a lot of R&D involved in making graphics cards, and the problem is that new fridge technology lasts like 20 years, new graphics card technology last only 1 year, if they are lucky, so who is gonna pay for it?

I am sure you can put together a decent PC for for R8,000 or so, obviously if you want to get that extra 10-20% performance, you will have to pay double.

 

[BTTB]

Resale Value

After 6 months to a year that shiny graphics card you bought for eight to ten grand will be worth probably less than half that, if you can find a buyer?
In most cases Computers have a very poor resale value IMO.
Especially the top of the range stuff.

Comparing fridges to graphics cards?
Every house needs a fridge, but not every house needs the latest graphic card. A fridge can last for ten years or more, whereas a graphics card may last for two or three years, maybe less, before it is outdated.

Computer Components are a poor investment if you could call it that.
Unless you are a avid gamer, trying to keep up with the latest technology is going to cost you.
>Watch the prices of AMD CPU's drop when Intel starts pushing their new Conroe Core on the market.
Perhaps I may buy myself a X2 4800+ when the prices fall below R1500, until then they are too expensive IMO.

 

[LethalChicken]

Ok so if a fridge lasts 10 years and a graphics card lasts one, shouldn't the fridge then cost R10,000 and the graphics card only R1,000 ?

And as far as local/imports & R&D goes. The fridge we got is a direct import apparently and R&D ... well this sucker defrosts automatically and uses cold air circulation ... yes we did have an OLD fridge

 

[squirrel]

I think the only problem the computer prices is for premium products. For example, someone who buys the latest graphics card is obviously someone who really enjoys gaming and has a lot of money, and is probably going to buy the next new thing that comes out.

On the other hand, you can really get something pretty decent for around R3500 (ie. whole pc)

 

[LethalChicken]

well that was my initial argument:

Buy a graphics card for R3500 ...

OR

Buy all the paint and accessories for my house and still have R1000 left over ...

 

[BTTB]

Ok so if a fridge lasts 10 years and a graphics card lasts one, shouldn't the fridge then cost R10,000 and the graphics card only R1,000 ?

And as far as local/imports & R&D goes. The fridge we got is a direct import apparently and R&D ... well this sucker defrosts automatically and uses cold air circulation ... yes we did have an OLD fridge

Economies of Scale?
I am sure they sell more Fridges than Graphics Cards?
The technology for fridges and graphics cards on a graph would also be different.
I doubt they alter the motor of the fridge every few months.

Anyway, I think they are catering for the enthusiast market.
A small sector of the market that like to have the latest and best no matter what the cost.

Meyer acknowledged between the lines of his statements that Intel may have captured the performance crown with its Core 2 Duo processors, but mentioned that this was just a part of history. "If you look back in time, you'll see that the performance crown has been passed back and forth. I expect that to continue," he said. He explained that "the performance crown is only important to the enthusiast" and not to the mainstream. And for this market, he expects that the upcoming 4x4 platform "will hold the hearts and minds and wallets of enthusiasts."

Source

>Paint the house

 

[LethalChicken]

>Paint the house

Busy with it right now .... it's a good thing I'm not getting any artifacts on my wall, probably since I didn't overclock the paint.

 

[ZuBS_]

I think you also not comparing like with like, a cheap low end pc will cost you R4000 max, just like basic paint or a standard fridge, a 7900gt is a top end card and you get expensive fridges also, you can purchase much cheaper cards for R1000 or a cheap sempron

 

[diabolus]

I seriously need an upgrade to my PC and for a decent (not TOL) PC I'm looking on close to R15000.

Maybe i'm a bit out of it, but 15k for a desktop PC is "premium" and "top of the range" as far as i'm concerned. I bought myself a pc for R5k and THAT i call a "decent" PC, which includes a 19" LCD and Nvidia 6600GT card.


Anyway, anyone who buys a R3k+ graphics card is seriously into whatever they are doing with it [or at least they should be, otherwise they are wasting their money]. Be it graphic design or gaming. So i wouldn't compare it to commodities [stuff everyone needs to buy at some time]. You must compare it to say new slicks on your Mountain Bike or a new driver [golf club] ...stuff like that. I bet the costs of serious/decent mountain bike gear would also kick the socks of a fridge or paint. I have seen some scary prices on golf clubs too.

 

[nocilah]

i think you guys are forgetting

more people will buy fridges then computers and more people will buy cheap computers vs high end gaming components. That is why high-end anythign costs more.

I know people who spend R15 000 for one speaker for their audio systems and then i know people who spend R4000 - R7000 on a video card, just to be ahead of the pack.

I find the best solution is to buy middle of the road. eg my 6600GT cost +/- R900. The sales dude was trying to tell me it will not run Quake 4 or FEAR when in fact it ran them both rather comfortably.

 

[LethalChicken]

ok, so tell me if I'm going overboard here ... this is what I'm looking to make up the almost 15k

Core 2 Doe (E6300 - lowest end of core 2 duo) - R2300
DDR2 2GB - R650 per gig - R1300
975X Mobo - (to support the Core 2 Duo) - R2000
3x 250GB HDD - R700 each - R2100
DVD Writer - R350
7900GT Gfx - R2900
Good 500W Power - R1000
Server Case (P180) - R1600
Thermal compound, cleaner and adabtors - R200

Total: R13750

So maybe an overkill on the case - but I want quiet with airflow, maybe overkill on 7900GT - a bit of future proofing. The HDD I want to stick with as I run oracle on that PC as well as other propriety apps so I need to spread the HDD load. Power supply I'm not going to compromise on as thats where most PC's get damaged.

SO if I go down to a 7600GT (R1700) and take a normal case (R300)

We are still on about R11,000 for a not very 'extreme' PC

 

[bullfrog]

Ok think of it this way. We pay a lot more for computer part that it costs to manufacture them, but there is another cost that the manufacturers have to pay that you don't know about. They first have to design the part and that takes a lot of time and money.

As mentioned earlier, most of these high end parts are for the enthuisiast market. When they are first released the prices are high, but once more stock becomes available and prices go down. Most of the entuisiasts will pay the high price right in the begining just to be the first ones to have the hardware. These enthuisiasts are overclockers who like to benchmark and get a score and are constantly trying to go for world records on scores or speeds. So it's in a way a sport for them.

I do agree that the prices are getting worse, but at least there is an amd price decrease coming

As for that pc, it is far from low end or even mid range. Core duo and and R2000 mobo. A low end pc will have maybe 160gb hdd, cheap mobo and a much cheaper cpu. Also spending too much on the psu, rather go for a cheap but high quality Aopen psu. I promise you that you will end up with a cheaper but still good pc. I would normally just go for an AMD solution though and save a lot of money on cpu and mobo.