Generator or Inverter for residential use?

signates

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Does it blend power sources and feed into the grid? NRS certified?
Looking at the datasheet it's got NRS 097-1-2 certification.

Can't find more detailed information but it does look like it will blend multiple sources.

One thing concerning is that it says max battery discharge of 10kw but then has a max discharge current of only 25A. Sunsynk is 41A @ 220v.

Transfer time is also a bit higher at 40ms vs 10ms
 

Speedster

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Looking at the datasheet it's got NRS 097-1-2 certification.

Can't find more detailed information but it does look like it will blend multiple sources.

One thing concerning is that it says max battery discharge of 10kw but then has a max discharge current of only 25A. Sunsynk is 41A @ 220v.

Transfer time is also a bit higher at 40ms vs 10ms
Something I'm not clear on is if those stated values are per phase or in total.

EDIT: I'm trying to get hold of their lead engineer for Europe, he's an UCT old-boy.
 
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signates

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With loadshedding looking to be more frequent and the unbearable hot weather in CT, the inverter is really paying for itself just b for the convenience in being able to run my aircons.

Running both of them (24000btu and 12000btu) uses less than 1.8kw.

Temp outside is over 30° while the house is a cool 24°.
 

Speedster

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I managed to track down the Solis engineering guy. See his answers (in bold) to my Q's below.

  1. Is the inverter able to blend PV/battery and grid? i.e. if I draw more than the PV / battery can provide does the inverter supplement this with grid power, or does it switch over to only using grid power? Yes this is the advantage of this version (or topology) of inverter over say your transformer-based Victron inverter which creates the grid for you. This acts as a PV inverter with batteries and is constantly measuring the grid power. When the grid power goes positive (export) it charges the batteries (reducing this export) and when it sees import (you paying), it discharges the batteries.
  2. The datasheet on the ginlong website says that the max battery draw is 25A for all models. Is this correct? How would that work for a 8kW or 10kW inverter? Yes the battery conversion stage of each model is not the same as the maximum PV on that inverter. It almost requires two numbers to name it… Anyway the datasheet for each should specify the maximum charge/discharge power. Remember if it is in current multiple it by the battery voltage to get the power. Also please note, most battery charge at a 0.5C rate (which means takes 2 hours to charge them), a 14kWh battery bank only needs a 7kW charger. Discharge is much better though but effects efficiencies.
  3. Does the inverter have an aux or secondary output? This would typically be used for something like a pool pump or electric geyser if the batteries are full and there is excess PV generation. It has an aux port but not for that purpose, it is for your critical circuits. In other words when the grid is connected to the inverter, it just puts the grid power onto the critical circuits. However if the grid is ever lost (due to load shedding like you might experience every so often in SA) the inverter will use the batteries to create its own grid and runs those critical circuits off the PV and the batteries. This transfer is taken care of automatically inside of the inverter at a really high speed (<40ms) which keeps your desktop PCs up (like a UPS). I installed a system like this for my family in Cape Town and they love me for it, they don’t even know about load shedding
 

RonSwanson

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I managed to track down the Solis engineering guy. See his answers (in bold) to my Q's below.

  1. Is the inverter able to blend PV/battery and grid? i.e. if I draw more than the PV / battery can provide does the inverter supplement this with grid power, or does it switch over to only using grid power? Yes this is the advantage of this version (or topology) of inverter over say your transformer-based Victron inverter which creates the grid for you. This acts as a PV inverter with batteries and is constantly measuring the grid power. When the grid power goes positive (export) it charges the batteries (reducing this export) and when it sees import (you paying), it discharges the batteries.
  2. The datasheet on the ginlong website says that the max battery draw is 25A for all models. Is this correct? How would that work for a 8kW or 10kW inverter? Yes the battery conversion stage of each model is not the same as the maximum PV on that inverter. It almost requires two numbers to name it… Anyway the datasheet for each should specify the maximum charge/discharge power. Remember if it is in current multiple it by the battery voltage to get the power. Also please note, most battery charge at a 0.5C rate (which means takes 2 hours to charge them), a 14kWh battery bank only needs a 7kW charger. Discharge is much better though but effects efficiencies.
  3. Does the inverter have an aux or secondary output? This would typically be used for something like a pool pump or electric geyser if the batteries are full and there is excess PV generation. It has an aux port but not for that purpose, it is for your critical circuits. In other words when the grid is connected to the inverter, it just puts the grid power onto the critical circuits. However if the grid is ever lost (due to load shedding like you might experience every so often in SA) the inverter will use the batteries to create its own grid and runs those critical circuits off the PV and the batteries. This transfer is taken care of automatically inside of the inverter at a really high speed (<40ms) which keeps your desktop PCs up (like a UPS). I installed a system like this for my family in Cape Town and they love me for it, they don’t even know about load shedding
Are you happy with the answers?
 

RonSwanson

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Wtf is a transformer based victron inverter?
And here's me thinking that you of all people would know... :)

@Speedster , my honest opinion is that the answers all sound a bit "fudged" for me, and do not answer your questions. Arrange a call with the guy, maybe it's just a small misunderstanding.
 

Speedster

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Wtf is a transformer based victron inverter?
Maybe this?

 

Speedster

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And here's me thinking that you of all people would know... :)

@Speedster , my honest opinion is that the answers all sound a bit "fudged" for me, and do not answer your questions. Arrange a call with the guy, maybe it's just a small misunderstanding.
I'm a novice on these things. From my little reading I did today Solis seems to be a reputable brand in Europe.

Maybe I should invite the guy to join the thread and then we can ask him our questions directly? I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
 
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Sinbad

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Maybe this?

Mmm. But the victron still does everything he says it doesn't do.
 

RonSwanson

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I'm a novice on these things. From my little reading I did today Solis seems to be a reputable brand in Europe.

Maybe I should invite the guy to join the thread and then we can ask him our questions directly? I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
Yes, sure, but as a novice myself, and I would personally prefer it to be a thread on the powerforum.

Edit: I think that it would be better for him Solis to get someone knowledgeable of the Solis design architecture to assist him in answering these type of questions. Peer review is good, and the best peer review for this type of question (that I know of) would be the powerforum. Too often these debates devolve into a kind of religious discussion, like the example which you posted (which draws parallels with the debate on valve vs tranny amps). If you want your questions ansswered honestly with no bullschit, take them to a forum with respected peers. And even then, do your own filtering.
 
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Neuk_

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Maybe this?


Interesting reading, thanks for sharing.
 

Speedster

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Yes, sure, but as a novice myself, and I would personally prefer it to be a thread on the powerforum.

Edit: I think that it would be better for him Solis to get someone knowledgeable of the Solis design architecture to assist him in answering these type of questions. Peer review is good, and the best peer review for this type of question (that I know of) would be the powerforum. Too often these debates devolve into a kind of religious discussion, like the example which you posted (which draws parallels with the debate on valve vs tranny amps). If you want your questions ansswered honestly with no bullschit, take them to a forum with respected peers. And even then, do your own filtering.
I'm re-reading the convo yesterday and not quite sure which questions you feel weren't answered properly? I'd like to post these to him as I am seriously considering this inverter and want to make sure I ask all the right questions before I do so. I also hear you about the powerforum, my experience there hasn't always been as positive nor the community as supportive as here.
 
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