Generator or Inverter for residential use?

[B-1]

Would one be able to use 1 capacitor plus other lithium batteries?

I've only seen lithium+capacitor hybrids you can buy as a unit and then of course people that diy their own. But its not commonplace yet, whether that's because of technical reasons or just because its not popular I don't know.

 

[Speedster]

I've only seen lithium+capacitor hybrids you can buy as a unit and then of course people that diy their own. But its not commonplace yet, whether that's because of technical reasons or just because its not popular I don't know.

What would be the plus in a hybrid storage module like this?

 

[B-1]

What would be the plus in a hybrid storage module like this?

In terms of longevity, a battery prefers moderate current at a constant discharge rather than a pulsed or momentary high load. Capacitors on the other hand are great at momentary high loads. They are often used in circuits to smooth out spikes. Battery design also takes into account what momentary load they need to be able to supply and if that is lower they can add some more capacity instead of having to design around high peak loads.

 

[Speedster]

In terms of longevity, a battery prefers moderate current at a constant discharge rather than a pulsed or momentary high load. Capacitors on the other hand are great at momentary high loads. They are often used in circuits to smooth out spikes. Battery design also takes into account what momentary load they need to be able to supply and if that is lower they can add some more capacity instead of having to design around high peak loads.

So maybe build something like this into the BMS or charge controller to protect the battery?

 

[TheChamp]

In terms of longevity, a battery prefers moderate current at a constant discharge rather than a pulsed or momentary high load. Capacitors on the other hand are great at momentary high loads. They are often used in circuits to smooth out spikes. Battery design also takes into account what momentary load they need to be able to supply and if that is lower they can add some more capacity instead of having to design around high peak loads.

Wouldn't batteries already have that built in? How are they able to deal with the peak current draws?

 

[B-1]

So maybe build something like this into the BMS or charge controller to protect the battery?

At the moment the caps that are needed are pretty big size wise so practically they will be easier to add on the battery side and will be there to protect the battery from a design wise will also make sense to keep them that side. But who knows in the future.

Wouldn't batteries already have that built in? How are they able to deal with the peak current draws?

Most batteries can handle the draw as they are designed with that in mind but it impacts the battery life. You're batteries will last longer if you don't work them hard. Similar to if you use your car for mostly long distance driving vs taking it on the race track every weekend.

 

[johnjm]

Hi all

I finally figured out how to change my UPS settings so that it only works from DC to AC, which will allow me to add solar and a charge controller.

Can anyone recommend a DIY solution. My UPS is a mere 2.4kva which serves its purpose as I don’t intend on utilising it for the big ticket items like Aircon’s, geyser, oven etc. It’s wired already and has been working fine for 6 years (well the batteries are finished now) but I’d like to add a few solar panels when I get new batteries.

The only issue is I probably need to just get a higher rated inverter so that I can go off grid for the plugs and lights, as the washing machine etc does utilise more than it is capable of.

However, it would be nice to do it in piecemeal and first add the required solar panels.

 

[wingnut771]

Hi all

I finally figured out how to change my UPS settings so that it only works from DC to AC, which will allow me to add solar and a charge controller.

Can anyone recommend a DIY solution. My UPS is a mere 2.4kva which serves its purpose as I don’t intend on utilising it for the big ticket items like Aircon’s, geyser, oven etc. It’s wired already and has been working fine for 6 years (well the batteries are finished now) but I’d like to add a few solar panels when I get new batteries.

The only issue is I probably need to just get a higher rated inverter so that I can go off grid for the plugs and lights, as the washing machine etc does utilise more than it is capable of.

However, it would be nice to do it in piecemeal and first add the required solar panels.

Make and model, some pics? Not much detail here.

 

[ChuckNorris]

For the guys with the know how, where do you tie in your inverter into your main DB?

I have an incoming power that goes to the RCD and then to all the circuits. But know I want to move some circuits to the essential load side and feed the inverter. I have a few questions.

1. To feed the inverter do I take the power before or after the RCD?
2. Output from the inverter, do I need to add a RCD as well and then into a change over switch. Or the output from the inverter goes into the change over switch and then to the essential loads. In essence then you will have 2 RCD inline for essential loads.
3. For the change over switch the grid side is that before or after the RCD?

 

[vassen]

For the guys with the know how, where do you tie in your inverter into your main DB?

I have an incoming power that goes to the RCD and then to all the circuits. But know I want to move some circuits to the essential load side and feed the inverter. I have a few questions.

1. To feed the inverter do I take the power before or after the RCD?
2. Output from the inverter, do I need to add a RCD as well and then into a change over switch. Or the output from the inverter goes into the change over switch and then to the essential loads. In essence then you will have 2 RCD inline for essential loads.
3. For the change over switch the grid side is that before or after the RCD?

1. Before. You should not have RCDs in series as you could end up with faulty trips. Also, if you take it after the RCD, you will end up tripping the RCD when the inverter switches back after a grid failure because the inverter takes a minute to change back and your neutrals and earths are still bonded.
2. Output of inverter will go to a changeover. Output of changeover goes to RCD.
3. this should come from before to avoid the series RCD issue

 

[AchmatK]

1. Before. You should not have RCDs in series as you could end up with faulty trips. Also, if you take it after the RCD, you will end up tripping the RCD when the inverter switches back after a grid failure because the inverter takes a minute to change back and your neutrals and earths are still bonded.
2. Output of inverter will go to a changeover. Output of changeover goes to RCD.
3. this should come from before to avoid the series RCD issue

This is how mine is setup except I have nothing on the non essential side.

Mains - > RCD - > DB - > inverter - > RCD - > loads.

 

[vassen]

This is how mine is setup except I have nothing on the non essential side.

Mains - > RCD - > DB - > inverter - > RCD - > loads. View attachment 1014978

Okay. But you also don’t have the earth neutral bond, right.

I initially connected mine after the RCD and it resulted in trips, so I moved it before.

 

[AchmatK]

Okay. But you also don’t have the earth neutral bond, right.

I initially connected mine after the RCD and it resulted in trips, so I moved it before.

Yes. No earth bond relay. I maybe get 1 trip every 10 load shedding slots but reckon its the earth leakage that's faulty. Its over 30 year old and I meant to replace it but never got around to it. I used to get random trips (once every 4 months or so) before installing the inverter and could never trace the fault.

 

[johnjm]

Make and model, some pics? Not much detail here.

Yeah sorry, it’s one of these

https://www.mantech.co.za/datasheets/products/HOME-UPS.pdf

My main concern was that how do you connect the UPS to a MPPT without it trying to charge it, considering it has a built in charger. Seems I have found the way to make the UPS act as an inverter only.

The picture below is the controller where I can change the setting from AC to AC to DC to AC to make this change.

I’m now sitting at home without power due to another fault or who knows what so maybe it’s fate but I need to get a solution.

My intention isn’t to go off grid, merely solar to provide battery charge and approx max 1000w of power. Yes I know it’s less than the inverter maximum but will be sufficient? I don’t expect to upgrade the UPS or permanently have part of my house always on solar (DB is already split so UPS provides lights and most plugs), changeover switch included too.

Anyway, I was researching PV panels, I was thinking of 4 panels, two in parallel, approx 1400w max, with a MPPT 100/50 or 100/60?

It seems that the victron MPPTs can charge lithium too so that’s a plus.

Does anyone know of an independent dude who has experience in installing panels on roofs ? I’ll project manage it and do the final connections, I just don’t want to do the roof stuff myself, and find the quotes I have received a bit of a rip off.

Oh, and can anyone recommend solar panels for me? I can order those in the meantime.

Many thanks

 

[ChuckNorris]

1. Before. You should not have RCDs in series as you could end up with faulty trips. Also, if you take it after the RCD, you will end up tripping the RCD when the inverter switches back after a grid failure because the inverter takes a minute to change back and your neutrals and earths are still bonded.
2. Output of inverter will go to a changeover. Output of changeover goes to RCD.
3. this should come from before to avoid the series RCD issue

Thank you, yes the series RCD was a bit yes/no from my side. I originally had a look at @signates picture below and that looks like 2 RCD in series.

 

[vassen]

Yeah sorry, it’s one of these

https://www.mantech.co.za/datasheets/products/HOME-UPS.pdf

My main concern was that how do you connect the UPS to a MPPT without it trying to charge it, considering it has a built in charger. Seems I have found the way to make the UPS act as an inverter only.

The picture below is the controller where I can change the setting from AC to AC to DC to AC to make this change.

I’m now sitting at home without power due to another fault or who knows what so maybe it’s fate but I need to get a solution.

My intention isn’t to go off grid, merely solar to provide battery charge and approx max 1000w of power. Yes I know it’s less than the inverter maximum but will be sufficient? I don’t expect to upgrade the UPS or permanently have part of my house always on solar (DB is already split so UPS provides lights and most plugs), changeover switch included too.

Anyway, I was researching PV panels, I was thinking of 4 panels, two in parallel, approx 1400w max, with a MPPT 100/50 or 100/60?

It seems that the victron MPPTs can charge lithium too so that’s a plus.

Does anyone know of an independent dude who has experience in installing panels on roofs ? I’ll project manage it and do the final connections, I just don’t want to do the roof stuff myself, and find the quotes I have received a bit of a rip off.

Oh, and can anyone recommend solar panels for me? I can order those in the meantime.

Many thanks

I don’t really understand what this is doing. The title says it’s an all in one device including solar power, so I would have assumed that it has some input for solar panels like some of the other units I’ve seen.

These units normal have an AC input and an AC load ups output. You could simply just disable the input using a timer and a relay or sonoff+relay. That was during sunlight hours, you just disable the AC input and if the weather is bad or you need to charge from AC, you just enable it.

 

[johnjm]

I don’t really understand what this is doing. The title says it’s an all in one device including solar power, so I would have assumed that it has some input for solar panels like some of the other units I’ve seen.

These units normal have an AC input and an AC load ups output. You could simply just disable the input using a timer and a relay or sonoff+relay. That was during sunlight hours, you just disable the AC input and if the weather is bad or you need to charge from AC, you just enable it.

It doesn’t have a solar input. Maybe it’s the larger ones or there are variations but mine doesn’t.

 

[Saba'a]

City of Tshwane put in this hexing meter - apparently rolling it out everywhere to block solar power feeding

 

[wingnut771]

City of Tshwane put in this - apparently rolling it out everywhere to block solar power feeding.

DA CoCT
DA Tshwane

The mind baffles.

 

[vassen]

I’m happy my Landis gyr meter doesn’t trip. Probably charges me but I’ve feedback about 7kw in the past 6 months.