Getting fibre into an estate - my experience and final win with MetroFibre

[Nomadman]

We have been told this but it is not a reality, they seem to only "release" an estate/complex once they have reached their signup quota of 60% for themselves or their re-sellers.

Which estate did you experience this issue where it was beyond 3 months before they made it available to you as an ISP?
And how many months was it?

 

[PBCool]

Which estate did you experience this issue where it was beyond 3 months before they made it available to you as an ISP?
And how many months was it?

There have been many, basically if we apply and get denied it usually means they haven't reached the quota they would like.

Their tactics are a bit one sided favoring themselves and white label re sellers, which isn't quite what "Open Access" is supposed to be about.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

There have been many, basically if we apply and get denied it usually means they haven't reached the quota they would like.

Their tactics are a bit one sided favoring themselves and white label re sellers, which isn't quite what "Open Access" is supposed to be about.

The network installed in an estate becomes open access two months after the project has been signed off and in most cases customers can move sooner. This has nothing to do with signup. The project-signoff is based on that all installation is complete. It is a bit of an illusion that any network will ever be true open-access as I would expect a certain process to be followed for ISPs to provide services on the network.

FWIW: To me you guys sound like sour-grapes. My experience with MFN and all people I dealt with is far above board compared to any other provider I have dealt with. Just because you are not on their network, does not mean that they apply unethical behavior. There are quite a few other reputable ISPs on their network.

LASTLY: Let's not make this thread a discussion about why Cool Ideas has not been allowed on the MFN network - feel free to create another thread and continue the conversation there. I would personally not move to you guys based on just the few comments you posted in this thread.

 

[PBCool]

The network installed in an estate becomes open access two months after the project has been signed off and in most cases customers can move sooner. This has nothing to do with signup. The project-signoff is based on that all installation is complete. It is a bit of an illusion that any network will ever be true open-access as I would expect a certain process to be followed for ISPs to provide services on the network.

FWIW: To me you guys sound like sour-grapes. My experience with MFN and all people I dealt with is far above board compared to any other provider I have dealt with. Just because you are not on their network, does not mean that they apply unethical behavior. There are quite a few other reputable ISPs on their network.

LASTLY: Let's not make this thread a discussion about why Cool Ideas has not been allowed on the MFN network - feel free to create another thread and continue the conversation there. I would personally not move to you guys based on just the few comments you posted in this thread.

I don't think you follow, we ARE on their network and have live customers on it.

As I mentioned we are one of the only ISPs with our own network and not using a re-sold MFN service like most of the other ISPs. It's not about sour grapes at all, this is my feedback from offering services on multiple other networks without any of this kind of issue.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I don't think you follow, we ARE on their network and have live customers on it.

I do follow. As an ISP you might not have the insight on how deals are structured with various estates. I can very well appreciate it that some estates will accept certain limitations imposed with regards to release (i.e. if they do not have the infrastructure in place such as we had where cables could just be simply pulled into the house and a provider will need to do extra trenching/running sleeves etc).

I also think that it would create a lot more problems if customers can chop-and-change ISPs during the rollout as troubleshooting will be impossible. I have no issue being on MFN for 2-3 months as it will allow me to create a base-line of service. Whoever I pick next needs to be better/cheaper at what I currently have.

Since you mentioned SADV - the company was not welcoming at all when I questioned 5 year exclusivity (which I think in today's time is completely ridiculous) and I have heard of quite a few estates being happy to "negotiate" it down to 3 years. Let's also remember that SADVs packages are not really fibre IMO and for transparency here some feedback about SADV based on their March 2016 offer (more details about SADV is here - http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/802979-SADV-FTTH-feedback):

I would have absolutely no objection to a 24 month exclusivity, provided that SADV can actually show price-sheets of all the providers they have talked about (VOX, Afrihost, Mweb, RSA Web). A letter of intent from Vodacom means absolutely nothing and is not binding. Contrary, it is quite common knowledge that Vodacom attempts to create “gated communities” where residents have no choice when it comes to selecting alternative providers.

Lastly, SADV’s offering and prices are far from industry standard and hardly match what their competitors offer. If you look at all the other estates where the sentiment was “Let’s just get it done” - you will find that it has turned in an epic disaster (Lonehill, Cedar Lakes, Fourways Gardens).

Literally any other ADSL/VDSL offer up to 20Mbps is cheaper elsewhere (even if you go via Telkom directly). Our estate is capable of running 20 Mbps VDSL and the MSAN down the road has sufficient ports.
* SADV’s uncontended packages are not FTTH - i.e. their speed is max 15Mbps. The 15Mbps comes with a 175GB cap and costs R1499 - VOX will over a 20Mbps uncapped VDSL line for R1200
* SADV 10Mbps uncapped = R 949 vs Afrihost R 729 or R 897
* Any of SADV’s capped packages can be found cheaper on ADSL/VDSL and there is absolutely no difference.

(*) When I say SADV is not true fibre: Anything below 20Mbps does not qualify in my mind as "fibre". 100mbps fibre with a 200GB cap is just a complete joke.

 

[PBCool]

Yeah since the investment from DFA it seems as if DFA is going to try and push SADV out of the ISP/Layer3 side of things, as you say they are not very competitive from that side of things.

Their layer2 service has been great so far from what we have experienced.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Yeah since the investment from DFA it seems as if DFA is going to try and push SADV out of the ISP/Layer3 side of things, as you say they are not very competitive from that side of things.

Their layer2 service has been great so far from what we have experienced.

I just heard that CISP and others do not have backhaul capacity into the POPs (Douglasdale in my case) and as such this is the reason why most of the ISPs can not offer services to estates running on MFN (with some exceptions).

 

[PBCool]

I just heard that CISP and others do not have backhaul capacity into the POPs (Douglasdale in my case) and as such this is the reason why most of the ISPs can not offer services to estates running on MFN (with some exceptions).

Not the case at all, we pay MFN for backhaul capacity on top of line fees. This gives access to the whole network. Where did you hear that?

 

[adamr]

The network installed in an estate becomes open access two months after the project has been signed off and in most cases customers can move sooner. This has nothing to do with signup. The project-signoff is based on that all installation is complete. It is a bit of an illusion that any network will ever be true open-access as I would expect a certain process to be followed for ISPs to provide services on the network.

FWIW: To me you guys sound like sour-grapes. My experience with MFN and all people I dealt with is far above board compared to any other provider I have dealt with. Just because you are not on their network, does not mean that they apply unethical behavior. There are quite a few other reputable ISPs on their network.

LASTLY: Let's not make this thread a discussion about why Cool Ideas has not been allowed on the MFN network - feel free to create another thread and continue the conversation there. I would personally not move to you guys based on just the few comments you posted in this thread.

I am currently in the exact position you started at. Also Fourways area and all providers greencom etc just go quiet after initial talks

Recently chatting to the sale rep at metro fibre and they seem keen. There is fibre right outside the complex entrance and metro fibre has confirmed this.

I'd be so over the moon once on fibre

 

[PBCool]

I am currently in the exact position you started at. Also Fourways area and all providers greencom etc just go quiet after initial talks

Recently chatting to the sale rep at metro fibre and they seem keen. There is fibre right outside the complex entrance and metro fibre has confirmed this.

I'd be so over the moon once on fibre

Greencom resells metrofibre anyway . It does make more sense if the operator already has a route running past or is nearby from a timing perspective.

 

[adamr]

Greencom resells metrofibre anyway . It does make more sense if the operator already has a route running past or is nearby from a timing perspective.

I know this and when I told them about the metro fibre network in front of the complex they went very quiet ... Saying according to their systems there is no fibre . Did not bother following up or anything

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I know this and when I told them about the metro fibre network in front of the complex they went very quiet ... Saying according to their systems there is no fibre . Did not bother following up or anything

Go with MFN directly. I had no joy with Greencom, Vumatel and all the others - there is big sales-talk and no-follow through. My impression of MFN is that they are starting off and I do agree that they are not as structured and organised as the big players, but at least MFN has followed through with each and every promise made:
- They started the project when they said the would
- They pulled the fibre into the house the day they said and cleaned up after themselves
- The connected the router and activated swiftly

I think the competition is tough and I noticed on Saturday Telkom waking up in Fourways Gardens putting up a Telkom/Fibre gazebo on one of the corners (too little to late, as almost all estates in the area are getting it from other providers). I do think that due to the competition there is a lot of salt and poison from companies who felt that they lost out (mostly because they could not give a rat's ass when I asked them 2 years ago despite being handed a signup-sheet of 150 units).

I am not sure how I feel about Telkom FTTH - my VDSL experience with them was really great. And hardly any outages. I think FTTH is a bit more "technical" and I am not sure one could trust Telkom yet with it on a consumer level.

FWIW - I just moved to a 50mbps package with MFN and hopefully this will improve the gaming experience. The Calix router really lacks features (but seems to be the preferred device) - I miss the features of my Asus VDSL with very solid QoS configs, VPN and reporting (most of which a normal household will never need).

 

[adamr]

Go with MFN directly. I had no joy with Greencom, Vumatel and all the others - there is big sales-talk and no-follow through. My impression of MFN is that they are starting off and I do agree that they are not as structured and organised as the big players, but at least MFN has followed through with each and every promise made:
- They started the project when they said the would
- They pulled the fibre into the house the day they said and cleaned up after themselves
- The connected the router and activated swiftly

I think the competition is tough and I noticed on Saturday Telkom waking up in Fourways Gardens putting up a Telkom/Fibre gazebo on one of the corners (too little to late, as almost all estates in the area are getting it from other providers). I do think that due to the competition there is a lot of salt and poison from companies who felt that they lost out (mostly because they could not give a rat's ass when I asked them 2 years ago despite being handed a signup-sheet of 150 units).

I am not sure how I feel about Telkom FTTH - my VDSL experience with them was really great. And hardly any outages. I think FTTH is a bit more "technical" and I am not sure one could trust Telkom yet with it on a consumer level.

FWIW - I just moved to a 50mbps package with MFN and hopefully this will improve the gaming experience. The Calix router really lacks features (but seems to be the preferred device) - I miss the features of my Asus VDSL with very solid QoS configs, VPN and reporting (most of which a normal household will never need).

Thats exactly what I intend doing ... A simple action to just respond to my queries is what I term ... Service. Concerns me to think if this is their response to selling me a product (reference to greencom and other isps I've contacted except metro fibre) imagine what their service will be like once I'm on their platform.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I switched to 50mbps. Just remember that all the tests are done "unclean" - right now the kid is playing Overwatch/Steam and and a total of 12 devices are currently connected. I have only once done a clean test (laptop connected straight to fibre-router) and there the speed local (Jozi) and Cpt exceeded the actual line speed (i.e. 26-27mbps on 25mbps).

Switched to 50mbps - Jozi:


Mountain - 50mbps:

 

[koeksGHT]

Telkom fibre is not terrible, it is basically Huawei outsourced. IPC just stuffs it up on pricing.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Some more answers regarding the Calix 813G and Calix in general:

• The 813G allows only one SSID (which you can rename to anything you like). It is a 2.4Ghz router. The bigger CPE offers at least 2 SSIDs (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz). The cheaper version was okay for me, since all wireless devices connect through other access points.
• The firmware is currently 11.1.70.15 and MFN is planning to do a mass-update to 11.1.130 which is centrally managed. You are not able to manage your own firmware.
• QoS is managed via DSCP standard and provides a great level of flexibility. I will explain below.
• No statistic / reporting / throughput view
• No VPN (use a Microtek etc behind it)

For people working with networks DSCP would make sense (I heard it the first time) and here is some insight into how the Calix uses it: https://www.calix.com/content/calix...an/eap-r24/index.htm?toc6943796.htm?62186.htm

For most users there is no need to implement QoS as your fibre speed will be high enough that in many cases QoS will not be a requirement. In my case I always had QoS as my wife's and my work-laptop should have "god-like-internet" since we often work from home. Then there is the PS4 (now a PS4Pro) which I use for online gaming and I don't want lag. Then you have the kid and his minion-friends who can deplete any internet connection.

I am still seeking clarification from Calix, but my current understanding is that there is one default QoS class, one Expedited Forwarding (EF) class and for extra QoS classes. The EF class has the lowest delay/jitter and I will assign my PS4Pro into it. Amongst the remaining classes (also referred to as AF = Assured Forwarding) you have 3 packet-drop rates (low, medium, high). In my case I will:
- Place PS4Pro into EF (I also have the IP of the PS4Pro in the DMZ and UPNP enabled)
- Place our work-laptops into class AF41 (2nd highest class after EF with the "1" in the "41" meaning lowest drop rate)
- Place my kid and his minions into AF23 (4th highest class with the "3" in "23" meaning highest drop rate)
- Our NAS which is used for backups, downloads and cloud-backups are placed in AF11 (one class above the default class) where the "1" in "11" means low drop rate
- Everything else (phones, tablets, kindles etc) goes into the default class

I think in most cases the QoS will not even be an issue, as enough bandwidth will always be available. The problem with the Calix QoS settings is that there seems to be no status-page/log where you can actually see how this is applied.

Calix will comment on my questions regarding the QoS and I will update this if I misunderstood.

 

[Kyoto]

Some more answers regarding the Calix 813G and Calix in general:

• The 813G allows only one SSID (which you can rename to anything you like). It is a 2.4Ghz router. The bigger CPE offers at least 2 SSIDs (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz). The cheaper version was okay for me, since all wireless devices connect through other access points.
• The firmware is currently 11.1.70.15 and MFN is planning to do a mass-update to 11.1.130 which is centrally managed. You are not able to manage your own firmware.
• QoS is managed via DSCP standard and provides a great level of flexibility. I will explain below.
• No statistic / reporting / throughput view
• No VPN (use a Microtek etc behind it)

For people working with networks DSCP would make sense (I heard it the first time) and here is some insight into how the Calix uses it: https://www.calix.com/content/calix...an/eap-r24/index.htm?toc6943796.htm?62186.htm

For most users there is no need to implement QoS as your fibre speed will be high enough that in many cases QoS will not be a requirement. In my case I always had QoS as my wife's and my work-laptop should have "god-like-internet" since we often work from home. Then there is the PS4 (now a PS4Pro) which I use for online gaming and I don't want lag. Then you have the kid and his minion-friends who can deplete any internet connection.

I am still seeking clarification from Calix, but my current understanding is that there is one default QoS class, one Expedited Forwarding (EF) class and for extra QoS classes. The EF class has the lowest delay/jitter and I will assign my PS4Pro into it. Amongst the remaining classes (also referred to as AF = Assured Forwarding) you have 3 packet-drop rates (low, medium, high). In my case I will:
- Place PS4Pro into EF (I also have the IP of the PS4Pro in the DMZ and UPNP enabled)
- Place our work-laptops into class AF41 (2nd highest class after EF with the "1" in the "41" meaning lowest drop rate)
- Place my kid and his minions into AF23 (4th highest class with the "3" in "23" meaning highest drop rate)
- Our NAS which is used for backups, downloads and cloud-backups are placed in AF11 (one class above the default class) where the "1" in "11" means low drop rate
- Everything else (phones, tablets, kindles etc) goes into the default class

I think in most cases the QoS will not even be an issue, as enough bandwidth will always be available. The problem with the Calix QoS settings is that there seems to be no status-page/log where you can actually see how this is applied.

Calix will comment on my questions regarding the QoS and I will update this if I misunderstood.

813 has 8 SSID
standard, Guest and 6 others called operator, but all can be renamed

 

[Nomadman]

Ok confused now one post says only 1 SSID and other states 8 SSID
So which is it? please verify

 

[Kyoto]

Ok confused now one post says only 1 SSID and other states 8 SSID
So which is it? please verify

Each radio has 8 SSID, out the box each radio has an SSID set to the ONT FSAN number, EG CNXK 567899,
there is then a Guest SSID on each Radio and 6 operator SSID's, you can change all the SSID's to anything you like.
for instance you can call the
2.4G home 2.4 and the
5G Home 5.

If interested you can then do MAC authentication to specific SSID's as well, this authentication either allows or denies devices onto the SSID

 

[Kyoto]

Only One SSID is active out the box, per radio, you have to activate the others.