Getting Telkom struck off ProudlySA list

MaD · Feb 5, 2004

There are four basic criteria for being able to become a member of Proudly South African:

1) Local content - at least 50% of the cost of production must be incurred in South Africa and there must be "substantial transformation" of any imported materials.

2) Quality - the product or service must be of a demonstrably high quality.

3) Fair labour practise - the company must practice fair labour standards, (comply with labour legislation).

4) Environmental standards - the company must practise sound environmental standards and the production process must be environmentally responsible.

Points 1 and 4 don't apply to Telkom, 3 does, but point 2 they fall horribly short on. The only quality product the have is... errmmmm... sorry can't think of one.

I think i will drop a line to the peepz at PSA and let them know TK is not complying with requirements. Am i wrong?

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

Karnaugh · Feb 5, 2004

Telkom probably pay for their little Proudly SA sticker. But the problem is not Telkom, its the government.

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"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

MOnk · Feb 5, 2004

Hell yeah you pay, you pay out your ass for that little sticker, so I doubt the guys at PSA would want to get rid of a big contributer like Telkom, sad but money talks. :/

MaD · Feb 5, 2004

Well i sent them a mail saying how crap & overpriced some of their products and services are, and that a company who charges what they do for connectivity and general communications is NOT a company who is proudly South African but rather holding a burgeoning economy back because of ludicrous pricing.

I also said that i'm embarrassed as a South African that Telkom is allowed to use the Proudly logo. They don't deserve it in the least, that's why i complained. We shall see in the morn what they say, will post reply as soon as... [

]

Stuffit, I'm not going to stop doing what i can till these bastards listen.

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 6, 2004

Also everyone forgets that Telkom as it is today did not do so with their own Capital. Telkom was put on the map by the people of South Africa indirectly through taxation which they received in subsidies from the state when they were still a Governmanet Parastatel and further revenues were received by means of Customer Accounts over many decades. Telkom was also a creator of employment for the masses.
Futhermore I feel cheated by the state for allowing a previously State(public) owned company to do what they are doing to the general public.
The government is responsible for the bad karma they have caused through telkoms listing to their current finacial status. Now R70 odd rand per share for Telkom shares. Up 700% in one year. This smacks of a company sitting with its arse in the butter. The only winners of this move are the few that might of bought Telkom Shares.
I like many could of bought Telkom Shares at the time, but I felt so peeved by their inadequate service and high pricing over the years, I didnt buy on principle.

I think its rediculous that Telkom could even consider wanted to be listed as Proudly South African.

Grantieboy · Feb 6, 2004

How Telkom got to where they are today is no longer important....... how we get rid of them is[

]

ADSL_BS

BTTB · Feb 6, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Grantieboy
 How Telkom got to where they are today is no longer important....... how we get rid of them is[

]

ADSL_BS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah. Hehe.
But in all seriousness, you are not going to rid of this beast that the state created in the short term. And I say a beast, because it is an organisation that has become uncontrollable. No matter what they will say to us, they cannot convince me that are in control and know whats happening on the ground. And furthermore I seriously wonder if anyone in this organisation actually cares. I get my wages at the end of the month and thats all that Im concerned about attitude. This might sound like an old stuck record, but one can see the obvious.

Lastly Grantieboy. One should always learn from ones history. That way you learn not to repeat the same old mistakes. A concept this government cannot grasp.

celeborn · Feb 6, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BTTB
 
I like many could of bought Telkom Shares at the time, but I felt so peeved by their inadequate service and high pricing over the years, I didnt buy on principle.

I think its rediculous that Telkom could even consider wanted to be listed as Proudly South African.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Telkom are entitled to be PSA. Their product is of demonstrably high quality. Before this illicits a kneejerk reaction and the signal:noise ratio goes through the roof, I would just like to say that you have to think in broader terms. [

]

Firstly dont forget that the entire COMPANY is branded as PSA. PSA take the entire product portfolio and examine it. However, lets use Telkom ADSL as a platform.

At the moment ADSL is everything they've "promised" it would be, hell, it's more. More often than not I can sustain the maximum transfer rate for extended periods of time. Yes indeed the line becomes almost unuseable when you hit the cap, but Telkom do explicity state that it is a BEST EFFORT service and there are NO GUARANTEES and that you will be shunted onto some ****ty oversold line. I dont think anyone can disagree that when you are uncapped the throughputs aren't anything but fabulous. No I haven't forgotten about the prioritisation, but if you read the contract before you sign it does indeed state that port prioritisation takes place. So what do we have ? Is it international ADSL? Hell no. Does it have it's problems? Yes indeed, Telkom cant even get local/INT metering correct. However at the end of the day, it is a South African ADSL product that is offered by the only company that can offer it - without going bankrupt.

In all honestly I dont think PSA can rightly say that Telkom are not entitled to the sticker when they dont actually have another South African ADSL product to benchmark against. Telkom do meet the criteria as stipulated by PSA. What I can say about Telkom is that when I pickup my telephone, it works. When I phone Telkom (as frustrating as that is), the Customer Services reps are always POLITE (albeit inept). When one of our national diginet links go down, their fault reporting system works relatively well.

Does this mean Im saying Telkom are great? No. They're a service provider and they're the only service provider who provide the service they do - obviously due to Monopoly etc. When there is actually some competition in this country maybe we'll have a leg to stand on and then be able to say that the service they provide is SUBSTANDARD, but until then Im just glad my diginet lines work, my ADSL is semi-useable and my telephone rings. If they managed to get the local/INT metering working I would actually be a happy customer.

Dont get me started on Sentech! [}

]

Celery

BTTB · Feb 6, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by celeborn
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BTTB
 
I like many could of bought Telkom Shares at the time, but I felt so peeved by their inadequate service and high pricing over the years, I didnt buy on principle.

I think its rediculous that Telkom could even consider wanted to be listed as Proudly South African.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Telkom are entitled to be PSA. Their product is of demonstrably high quality. Before this illicits a kneejerk reaction and the signal:noise ratio goes through the roof, I would just like to say that you have to think in broader terms. [

]

Firstly dont forget that the entire COMPANY is branded as PSA. PSA take the entire product portfolio and examine it. However, lets use Telkom ADSL as a platform.

At the moment ADSL is everything they've "promised" it would be, hell, it's more. More often than not I can sustain the maximum transfer rate for extended periods of time. Yes indeed the line becomes almost unuseable when you hit the cap, but Telkom do explicity state that it is a BEST EFFORT service and there are NO GUARANTEES and that you will be shunted onto some ****ty oversold line. I dont think anyone can disagree that when you are uncapped the throughputs aren't anything but fabulous. No I haven't forgotten about the prioritisation, but if you read the contract before you sign it does indeed state that port prioritisation takes place. So what do we have ? Is it international ADSL? Hell no. Does it have it's problems? Yes indeed, Telkom cant even get local/INT metering correct. However at the end of the day, it is a South African ADSL product that is offered by the only company that can offer it - without going bankrupt.

In all honestly I dont think PSA can rightly say that Telkom are not entitled to the sticker when they dont actually have another South African ADSL product to benchmark against. Telkom do meet the criteria as stipulated by PSA. What I can say about Telkom is that when I pickup my telephone, it works. When I phone Telkom (as frustrating as that is), the Customer Services reps are always POLITE (albeit inept). When one of our national diginet links go down, their fault reporting system works relatively well.

Does this mean Im saying Telkom are great? No. They're a service provider and they're the only service provider who provide the service they do - obviously due to Monopoly etc. When there is actually some competition in this country maybe we'll have a leg to stand on and then be able to say that the service they provide is SUBSTANDARD, but until then Im just glad my diginet lines work, my ADSL is semi-useable and my telephone rings. If they managed to get the local/INT metering working I would actually be a happy customer.

Dont get me started on Sentech! [}

]

Celery

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are the South African with hope. I like this attitude. Its the feeling I had after 1994. But my patience is wearing very thin.
They know that their are people out their that are not happy, but chose to ignore them most of the time. The creator of this website would never of put up this website and all the people would not of taken the time to write their stories on these threads, had telkom been listening to its users.
I hear what you are saying, but I will go further to say that we here are too often just to happy and take things for granted. No Malice to you intended as I do not know you.
I just know that people around the world are getting better service, speed and cheaper prices and they have had it for some time now. Here is one example of a price just to get your taste buds going.
"ADSL

4096kB down
648kB up

79 Euro per month.

Static IP, not capped."
this is taken off this thread on Madonions Forums.
http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum...umber=3380706&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

antowan · Feb 6, 2004

One reply on this post made it clear that Telkom was built on the back of the people of SA. If a competitor is needed, simply break Telkom in 2 or more pieces! Same as in the US...

Cheers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
 There are four basic criteria for being able to become a member of Proudly South African:

1) Local content - at least 50% of the cost of production must be incurred in South Africa and there must be "substantial transformation" of any imported materials.

2) Quality - the product or service must be of a demonstrably high quality.

3) Fair labour practise - the company must practice fair labour standards, (comply with labour legislation).

4) Environmental standards - the company must practise sound environmental standards and the production process must be environmentally responsible.

Points 1 and 4 don't apply to Telkom, 3 does, but point 2 they fall horribly short on. The only quality product the have is... errmmmm... sorry can't think of one.

I think i will drop a line to the peepz at PSA and let them know TK is not complying with requirements. Am i wrong?

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom
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He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

BTTB · Feb 6, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If a competitor is needed, simply break Telkom in 2 or more pieces! Same as in the US...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is what everyone was thinking was to happen. But when last did anyone hear that their was actually a bidder to buy out part of telkom. The last I heard was the state had turned down several offers.
I wonder now after telkoms shares have risen to R70+ if anyone would want to buy it anymore.
Also, when and if this buyout happens, it seems to me as if the state is wanting a gradual integration. This gradual integration will lengthen and strengthen the life of telkom and its employees, but will it bring real savings to the end users. Opinions anyone?

Perhaps in a perfect world one can ponder the following. Why do we need to sell Telkom to an overseas bidder. Keep it local. If we could just change the attitude of telkom as it is and it promised a better service to especially the likes of people like on this forum, it could rather of become a Company that provided a service on a breakeven basis. Eg Cost of calls to user = actual cost of service + telkoms wage bill.
This could of ensured not only a good and cheaper service to the public, but could of created a scenario where one could of created jobs for the masses of unemployed people.

Just my 2c

MaD · Feb 6, 2004

Well, no reply from PSA as yet.

But it's weekend so there's more time to think about a plan of action.............................. [?] [}

]

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

Karnaugh · Feb 6, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">From: Ant Brooks <ant@ff.co.za>

Hi all,

I wrote a lengthy response to the licensing thread, but then deleted it
in favour of a simpler approach. Below is a list of contact details for
some of the decision-makers in South Africa's telecommunications
environment. These details were current a few months back, but I haven't
checked them recently. (If you spot any mistakes, please let me know.)

Although I've included email addresses below, I strongly advise that
you send old-fashioned printed letters. They are more likely to have
an impact.

I invite anyone who does send letters to any of the people below to
also send a copy to me, either via this list, or directly. I'll include
an archive of any letters sent on the IOZ web site.

Ant.

---
Dr Ivy Matsepe-Casaburri
Minister of Communications
Mail: Private Bag X860, Pretoria, 0001
E-mail: nomvula@doc.gov.za

Mr Pakamile Pongwana (Acting)
Director-General (Acting), Department of Communications
Mail: Private Bag X860, Pretoria, 0001
E-mail: director@doc.gov.za

Mr Alexander Erwin
Minister of Trade and Industry
Mail: Private Bag X274, Pretoria, 0001
E-mail: c/o Ms Neo Moono (nmoono@dti.pwv.gov.za)

Dr Alistair Ruiters
Director-General, Department of Trade and Industry
Mail: Private Bag X84, Pretoria, 0001
E-mail: c/o Mr Saul Molobi (Saulm@dti.pwv.gov.za)

President Thabo Mbeki
Mail: Private Bag X1000, Cape Town, 8000
E-mail: c/o Mr Bheki Khumalo (bheki@po.gov.za) or Ms Nthobi Angel (nthobi@po.gov.za)

Dene Smuts
Communication Portfolio
Democratic Alliance
Mail: PO Box 1475, Cape Town, 8000
E-mail: dene@iafrica.com

Vincent Gore
Communication Portfolio
Democratic Alliance
Mail: PO Box 1475, Cape Town, 8000
E-mail: vgore@icon.co.za

Ms. S.C. Vos
Communication National Portfolio Committee
Inkatha Freedom Party
Mail: PO Box 15, Cape Town, 8000

Ms Anna van Wyk
Broadcasting and Government Communications
New National Party
E-mail: annavanwyk@parliament.gov.za
Mail: PO Box 1698, Cape Town, 8000

--
Whasset (n.): A business card in your wallet belonging to someone whom
you have no recollection of meeting.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

MaD · Feb 6, 2004

OK i've just sent a well-worded polite e-mail to Ivy re Telkom and PSA list and raised the issue of connectivity prices.. hopefully there will be some sort of reply [

]

Now the crafting of mails to the other people starts [

]

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 7, 2004

The email I sent PSA

Good Day.

I and several other people in South Africa will like to bring to your attention our feelings about Telkom SA Ltd "PSA"

1. If telkom sell off more than 50% to an overseas consortium, will they still be PSA.

2.Quality of Service should be re-evaluated. At the moment this website (www.myadsl.co.za) has hundreds of members. Im not sure if isnt in the thousands actually, but Im not the founder of the website so I cannot say. These people have serious greviences with Telkom. I ask you to visit this website and take a look for yourself.
What Im trying to say is that I and many others are feeling cheated by Telkom's poor service delivery, product misrepresentation and downright ripoff prices. We have suffered for years with this Monopolistic Organisation's One Sided Attitude.

3. Labour Practices. Well this isnt my forte to speak, but I will say this. The many thousands of people that Telkom made redundant cannot be too happy.

4. Environmental standards. Well isnt this a bone for contention. As the local Ratepayers Representative I am reasonably familiar with the Application for Cell Phone Masts. As Im aware that their is no scientific evidence saying that the radio waves emitted are not dangerous.But their might actually be a problem that might still come to light and be scientifically proven. Sometimes a smoke screen hides a fire behind it.

Summing up.
If % title situation needs investigation in point 1.
But point 2 is everyones main concern. I know of many people that are simply happy that they can pick up the phone and have a dialling tone. But the world has progressed somewhat since then and the days that Telkom would come and see if you had extra jacks in your house. The world wide web has brought a wealth of opportunities for people all over the world. Overseas the people shop online. But seriously would you consider this option knowing full well that 24/7 connectivity will cost you at least R680 plus vat a month. This doesnt include setup costs etc. Telkom which was basically a Organisation Built up by the people of South Africa through years of indirect taxation and exorbitant accounts. We pay such a lot of money for an existing set of exchanges long ago paid for by us. They are a monopoly and are marking their time and while doing so taking our hard earned cash.
I can carry on, but Im sure you can get the point Im trying to make. If you require further info feel free to mail me. And send telkom a wake up call and tell them its the 21st century and life is very short and we cannot wait around too long for them to take the big step.
But regarding Telkom a PSA needs serious reevaluation.

Regards,
Gary

BTTB · Feb 7, 2004

I noticed something on PSA Website.

"How is the campaign funded?

The campaign is funded from three sources: the Department of Trade and Industry provides a grant; sponsors such as SAA, Telkom, Old Mutual and Eskom provide sponsorships; as well as membership fees.

The funds are used for advertising, consumer education and operational costs."

I wonder if we have a chance considering that Telkom sponsors them. Is this not a conflict of interest. Does this PSA actually mean anything?
I doubt if PSA are going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. What you guys think about this discovery I made. Will it influence the PSA's answer to our questions."

BTTB

MOnk · Feb 7, 2004

Lol, I tried to warn you guys ....there is NO WAY they are going to eject one of their Founding members.

Karnaugh · Feb 7, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4. Environmental standards. Well isnt this a bone for contention. As the local Ratepayers Representative I am reasonably familiar with the Application for Cell Phone Masts. As Im aware that their is no scientific evidence saying that the radio waves emitted are not dangerous.But their might actually be a problem that might still come to light and be scientifically proven. Sometimes a smoke screen hides a fire behind it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What does Telkom have to do with Cellphone masts?

The radio waves emitted by cellphone masts:
- Has nothing to do Telkom or even this argument
- Are not harmfull (And this has been scientifically proven on numerous occasions)

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

MaD · Feb 8, 2004

I think we should focus on the ADSL part of it - it isn't up to scratch and I'm not going to keep quiet until it is. The Americans had DSL in 1995 already, 7 years later we have it and it's the most expensive and worst in the world.

We should do what we can and explore all avenues of possibility to damage Telkom, even if that damage is permanent. They need to be taken by the shoulders and given a vigorous shake because they're keeping SA back, and the pool of dissatisfied customers is growing more rapidly than they will ever know. 90% of people are the moer in with Telkom for various reasons, ADSL is a part of that, and is going to become even more of a major issue as we progress through 2004.

I am sick and tired of Telkom and their minions aka Stevie White etc., and have not much hope for the SNO as they will be another government-issue stuff-up anyway. Anyway, we must keep thinking of what to do.

Personally i think the every Tuesday of not using Telkom lines will work, as long as we let every single person we can know about it. Let's not be passive anymore, it's time to take action.

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Karnaugh
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4. Environmental standards. Well isnt this a bone for contention. As the local Ratepayers Representative I am reasonably familiar with the Application for Cell Phone Masts. As Im aware that their is no scientific evidence saying that the radio waves emitted are not dangerous.But their might actually be a problem that might still come to light and be scientifically proven. Sometimes a smoke screen hides a fire behind it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What does Telkom have to do with Cellphone masts?

The radio waves emitted by cellphone masts:
- Has nothing to do Telkom or even this argument
- Are not harmfull (And this has been scientifically proven on numerous occasions)

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Erm. I did say it has not been scientifically proven. Did you read what I said. BTW Telkom does have Cell Phone Masts. I live about 300m from a Telkom Exchange and it has many types of aerials, masts and other gadgets over it. And my vodacom cellphone registers it as that exchange.

Part of the council procedures in a Cell Phone Mast Application is that the Application must be distributed to all effected parties in the area. On the Application Form, their is big warning about the "possible" dangers of these waves on the human body. Although as you and I agree on, is the fact that none of these warnings were ever scientifically proven.And these applications state this too.
But as I said before that it might still be possible that future discoveries of harmful side effects might still be discovered. You enterpreted my letter incorrectly.
We as the Ratepayers in the area were actually more concerned about the undesirable visual impact that these masts have in our area and we have actually decided that in future any Cell Phone Masts need to be disguised as a tree. This practice has been already done in Natal and other areas, but Im not sure which. If you like I can send you a picture of a our telkom exchange with cell masts and other gadgets on it, just give me your email adress.

My actaul reason for mentioning the Cell Phone Mast story was merely an attempt to try to help the writer of this thread about PSA's. As Point 4 of the PSA's concerns Environmental Standards. And I thought that this point was relevant. Perhaps you have some input on the 4 PSA pointers. Im sure everyone will welcome any feedback you might have.
The intention here was to help the writer of this thread. And Im sure he welcomes any help he can get as his fight will not be an easy one.

And another thing aboput cellphones you might not be aware of. Telkom owns 51% of Vodacom.

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