Giter Batteries compatibility what's the big deal?

[PaulB_]

Hi all

Am in the process of considering replacing my 4 12v 100ah batteries for my 24v inverter setup. I am on a very tight budget, so will need to work my backside off to get the funds together.

https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/giter-2-56kwh-25-6v-100ah-lfp-battery-module this battery for just under R10,000 seems like an absolute bargain, Lithium-ion, and would last longer. However the only thing they say it seems to only be compatible with Kodak inverters. Obviously those at My BB should know better, would it work with my 5kv 24v Mecer inverter, and is this a worthwhile investment?

Thanks

 

[TheChamp]

Kodak and Mecer seems to be the same thing for the most part, if I were to guess I would say it would work. I do wonder though, what's the point of making a battery that is only compatible with a particular inverter? sounds very limiting.

 

[TheChamp]

Okay, seems to be the OGvrange of Kodak inverters which is different to the Axpert type, but is still sound like some monopoly, on the Sustainable website they say the warranty would be voided if installed with other inverters, not that it can't work with other inverters.

 

[RonSwanson]

Hi all

Am in the process of considering replacing my 4 12v 100ah batteries for my 24v inverter setup. I am on a very tight budget, so will need to work my backside off to get the funds together.

https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/giter-2-56kwh-25-6v-100ah-lfp-battery-module this battery for just under R10,000 seems like an absolute bargain, Lithium-ion, and would last longer. However the only thing they say it seems to only be compatible with Kodak inverters. Obviously those at My BB should know better, would it work with my 5kv 24v Mecer inverter, and is this a worthwhile investment?

Thanks

Your inverter uses a very crude and antiquated method (battery voltage) to determine state and rate of charge, depth of discharge, shutdown and restart. This is OK if it is a lead-acid battery, because there is a lot of latitude in voltage differences between the various states of charge. Lithiums are different, the latitude decreases significantly. That's one of the reasons it needs a BMS. The BMS is critical for any lithium setup, for the protection and maintenance of its cells, and for the safe charge and discharge of energy. The BMS ideally needs to communicate with the inverter, sending it signals that tell it to reduce or increase discharge / charge rate at times that are appropriate for its cells, and to balance the individual cells amongst one another. Clearly, the Giter wants to be paired with an inverter that understands and respects these signals from its BMS. This is critically important because the consequences could be catastrophic. In addition, they only recommend specific inverters, presumably because the communications have only been tested and verified with those inverters.



BMS are not all created equal, some have better capabilities than others, and are more expensive as a result. There are lead-replacement lithium batteries, such as the Hubble S-100 and Mecer, that have a BMS that is designed to "fool" the inverter into thinking that it is powered by a lead-acid battery. They are also capable of protecting the battery in situations where the inverter sends voltages and current to it that is outside of what it needs. These properties are clearly advertised. If you want to move to lithium without changing your inverter, rather choose them, otherwise the logical choice would be to stick with LA.

 

[igeorge]

Paul, check whether your inverter has a user specified battery option. If so, you can set the bulk and float voltages to be compatible with your LFP battery. Assuming you won't have BMS comms between the battery and inverter, you'd have to set all this manually.

From a operational pov you don't want the inverter overcharging the batteries and causing the internal BMS to kick in, or overdischarging doing the same, as it might then require some intervention to reset. But that can be adjusted on the inverter side with conservative voltage settings, so def doable.

Additionally, the conservative settings will extend your batteries life.

Also, check the max current draw allowed from the batteries - your 5kW inverter needs 200+ A to generate 5kW. That will require 4/5 units in parallel as they only do 50A each. If not the BMS will disconnect them if you try to pull more current, and your AC power will go off.

I'd go that route rather than buy LA batteries, which are really a waste of money. On the other hand if you're getting the 4 or 5 of these needed, a new inverter is probably a wise choice, given the extra flexibility that will offer.

Try www.powerforum.co.za for more help.
Ian

 

[wingnut771]

Hi all

Am in the process of considering replacing my 4 12v 100ah batteries for my 24v inverter setup. I am on a very tight budget, so will need to work my backside off to get the funds together.

https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/giter-2-56kwh-25-6v-100ah-lfp-battery-module this battery for just under R10,000 seems like an absolute bargain, Lithium-ion, and would last longer. However the only thing they say it seems to only be compatible with Kodak inverters. Obviously those at My BB should know better, would it work with my 5kv 24v Mecer inverter, and is this a worthwhile investment?

Thanks

Better to just spend R10k on 2 hubble s-100's if you can find any.

You should try balancing your batteries in the meantime.

 

[igeorge]

Good point, they can do 100A each at least. So 4 in a 2p2s will give him close to 5kW of peak load.

 

[DuracellBunny]

It is possible that the manufacture or disti is just doing this because of warranty and they know from a compatibilty point of view there wont be any problems. Disti seems to be very particular, Battery can be used with a non kodak branded inverter but then no warranty. Axpert is an axpert, it still belongs to voltronic lol.

 

[wingnut771]

Good point, they can do 100A each at least. So 4 in a 2p2s will give him close to 5kW of peak load.

I doubt he has a 5kW 24V inverter.

 

[wingnut771]

It is possible that the manufacture or disti is just doing this because of warranty and they know from a compatibilty point of view there wont be any problems. Disti seems to be very particular, Battery can be used with a non kodak branded inverter but then no warranty. Axpert is an axpert, it still belongs to voltronic lol.

I would rather go with the hubbles and keep the warranty.

 

[PaulB_]

More info, and slight correction, my inverter is 3000w, not 5000w




Currently in New Zealand, so will only be back in Cape Town early next year, but inverter is set up in the house where I am staying, housemates are saying that the batteries are lasting less, and less with every outage. I doubt the batteries are dying, I just don't think they are being charged equally, and then as a result the system suffers.
I got a retired electrical engineer to have a look for me before I left, and he ensured all the batteries were charged, and wired correctly, and then it lasted though the hectic stage 4 outages in May/June It was only when there was no load shedding and the batteries stood without being discharged for 4 months then I now have the issue of the batteries running down. We only use it to power our router, and few other small items for the timebeing. Currently have 4 12v batteries wired as 2 24v banks (200ah)


Here's batteries please ignore the cabling, as that's since been redone, I feel that with a good quality 24v lithium 100ah battery, I should get better performance than with these current batteries, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.

 

[DuracellBunny]

I would rather go with the hubbles and keep the warranty.

Thats true, especially not wanting to throw away 10K for a battery

 

[wingnut771]

More info, and slight correction, my inverter is 3000w, not 5000w


View attachment 1186954

Currently in New Zealand, so will only be back in Cape Town early next year, but inverter is set up in the house where I am staying, housemates are saying that the batteries are lasting less, and less with every outage. I doubt the batteries are dying, I just don't think they are being charged equally, and then as a result the system suffers.
I got a retired electrical engineer to have a look for me before I left, and he ensured all the batteries were charged, and wired correctly, and then it lasted though the hectic stage 4 outages in May/June It was only when there was no load shedding and the batteries stood without being discharged for 4 months then I now have the issue of the batteries running down. We only use it to power our router, and few other small items for the timebeing. Currently have 4 12v batteries wired as 2 24v banks (200ah)
View attachment 1186964

Here's batteries please ignore the cabling, as that's since been redone, I feel that with a good quality 24v lithium 100ah battery, I should get better performance than with these current batteries, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.

How far away are the batteries from the inverter?

 

[PaulB_]

How far away are the batteries from the inverter?

Inverter is screwed on the other side of the wood to the right. If you look carefully you can see the screws in the wood that's holding the inverter up.

 

[PaulB_]

Thank you so much for the valuable insight, if Hubbles are the way to go, then who am I to argue Just need to scrape the funds together to start to save.

 

[wingnut771]

Inverter is screwed on the other side of the wood to the right. If you look carefully you can see the screws in the wood that's holding the inverter up.

Ok not too far. Can you show a pic with the updated cabling as cabling like it is above will wreck a battery, nevermind there are 2 different brands of batteries. If you measure the resistance of each battery, are they the same?

 

[PaulB_]

an update - batteries are at the end of their life, but are being used till the new batteries eventually arrive, when I order then then will reconnect the Sunmagic inverter, which is packed away at the moment.

I am using a temp 12v inverter, and even in parallel with 4 100ah batteries get just over 2 hours with routers, and a desktop running idle. TV, and DStv decoders all go off when the power is out. Although would still prefer giter batteries, I am equally open to the idea of 2 Hubble s-120s, I also hope to eventually add a few panels to the mix, that should get at least the smaller appliances off Eskom's grid.