Global Warming - running out of time to prevent ECONOMIC disaster

[BCO]

Ooohh .. I must provide sources? When you do not? Your sources basically amount to "them be experts, me believe experts". Hey I know of a few expert car mechanics; they know how to fix cars but they mostly CHOOSE not to because they got a good scam going with the "regular" services.

Ok, read my post again - I certainly provided sources, including hyperlinks to the articles themselves. When it comes to climate change, yes I believe experts on the subject. Who else does one believe? I also believe the experts on atomic power, microchip design, automotive engineering and evolution (lemme guess, you probably don't believe the latter experts either). So far, these people seem to have been doing something right.

Again, you have provided no sources for your claims and so I can't answer them (although I will attempt to to tackle the blogger's graphs). You see, the onus is NOT on me to have to go and try to dig up information on the claims you make - you should be able to back them up.

Now onto the Aussie graphs (which actually came via “better” denialist sites like http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com):

Point 1. You have no answer to the temperature graphs which are considered accurate satellite thermal data. Instead you grasp at ad-hominem attacks on the messenger - "He is a blogger - not experty - ignore - la la la la". Fact is that the data shows NO warming at all, in fact shows a small cooling. This has been acknowledged by your "experts" who now say that it is a cooling time before the great warmening of 2020. Based on what?? COMPUTER MODELS!!! These same COMPUTER MODELS that cannot accurately forecast events of the past because thry cannot take into consideration things like cloud cover and other water vapour effects, ocean temperature shunts etc. By modelling standards, they are bunk. But hey, you can pray 5 times a day to the "perfect" models and their "perfect" prophets.

Firstly, it’s nice to clarify one thing: ad hominem attacks aren’t cool. Can we keep Gore out of further debates then?

Secondly, to me looking at that graph it would still appear that the last 15 years or so on were above the line whereas all the years before that were below the line, indicating a warming trend. The fact that June 2008 was cooler than June 1988 doesn’t exactly blow the whole concept of AGW out of the water. The warming trend is still clear to see on the graph as a whole.

 

[icyrus]

Linky? Why bother when you can google. But then, any reality that differs from your own is just a conspiracy by the OIL companies to destroy this world. Problem is, the only people doing major damage right now are you enviro morons.

Exactly what damage are environmentalists doing?

 

[Claymore]

BTW .. I have noticed that the temperatures this year are well on track for being pretty much the same, if not a little colder, than the last couple of years. WHERE IS THE WARMENING?? Isn't GLOBAL warming supposed to be, well, GLOBAL!!!!!

As others have said, this is a warm winter. Never before in JHB have I ever seen my lawn (and most lawns) still green in July. Hell, I have a tree in my garden that has only just started shedding leaves.

 

[mercurial]

As others have said, this is a warm winter. Never before in JHB have I ever seen my lawn (and most lawns) still green in July. Hell, I have a tree in my garden that has only just started shedding leaves.

Warm for you. Come down to Cape Town and you might change your tune. It's been raining here for weeks now.

 

[w1z4rd]

Ooohh .. I must provide sources? When you do not? Your sources basically amount to "them be experts, me believe experts". Hey I know of a few expert car mechanics; they know how to fix cars but they mostly CHOOSE not to because they got a good scam going with the "regular" services.

Point 1. You have no answer to the temperature graphs which are considered accurate satellite thermal data. Instead you grasp at ad-hominem attacks on the messenger - "He is a blogger - not experty - ignore - la la la la". Fact is that the data shows NO warming at all, in fact shows a small cooling. This has been acknowledged by your "experts" who now say that it is a cooling time before the great warmening of 2020. Based on what?? COMPUTER MODELS!!! These same COMPUTER MODELS that cannot accurately forecast events of the past because thry cannot take into consideration things like cloud cover and other water vapour effects, ocean temperature shunts etc. By modelling standards, they are bunk. But hey, you can pray 5 times a day to the "perfect" models and their "perfect" prophets.

Point 2. The models predicted antartic ice thinning but when that did not happen, the models had to be revised for that fact. The antarctic is thickening. The models cannot cope with the cold air effect and ozone hole over the antarctic. Boo hoo. But they are perfect. We were supposed to see huge ice bergs off the Cape by now. Never happened.

Point 3. The seas were supposed to be getting higher. This has not happened. Now they say it will only start happening in 100 - 1000 years. Last century they were saying that we were supposed to see doom and gloom today.

Point 4. We were supposed to get horrendous storms like Katrina but on a bigger scale. Except, as it warmed, the storms abated and we had a very quiet season. Then it cooled and the storms returned.

Linky? Why bother when you can google. But then, any reality that differs from your own is just a conspiracy by the OIL companies to destroy this world. Problem is, the only people doing major damage right now are you enviro morons.

I am sitting right now in 3 degree temperature. This is totally normal for JHB at this time. WHERE IS THE WARMENING?

Are you for real? Or do you work for a major petroleum company?

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Hello.

I am quite busy IRL to deal with you morons but I thought I would throw you a bone or two.

For the hockey stick, here is a nice-a link:

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/comment.php?comment.news.77

For an understanding of the hoax, here is a video by an ACTUAL expert:

http://ker-plunk.blogspot.com/2008/07/professor-john-christy-calmly-carves-up.html

Here is another person who is not part of the consensus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Patterson

And this is what he has to say:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/21/123227.shtml

Some more ppl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scient...tream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Look at the averages for 1961-1990:

http://www.weathersa.co.za/Climat/Climstats/JohannesburgStats.jsp

NOW, check this article:

http://www.weathersa.co.za/Pressroom/2008/2008Mar19MaxTemp.jsp

Oh yeah, then there is this thread:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb//showthread.php?t=126406

Let us all SING ALONG:

Global Waaaarmmiingg .. Global WARmiing .. It's so coldening, feeling waaarming!!!

PS. About the original graphs, the temperature increase from 2000 to 2007 is reversing itself and we are headed DOWN ... Such things do happen. This was cause by HEAVY SUNSPOT ACTIVITY .. read up on it. Now we are headed into a period of very low sunspot activity and we could be in the k4k if the sun does not start to boil soon. Yes .. think GLACIAL!!! For all you anthromopofohorphic idiots .. when the sun screams HAU, the, earth, she screams YES BAAAS!!!

 

[BandwidthAddict]

One last thing ....

It ain't climate, if it ain't changing .. Not even buildings can keep a constant "climate"

So ****es, don't be afraid, well, be a little afraid, of your stupidity!!!

For this, I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry. Is there such a thing as one dimensional life?

Are you for real? Or do you work for a major petroleum company?

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Exactly what damage are environmentalists doing?

This film, when released, will show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMOEVRysWE

http://www.noteviljustwrong.com/

But I don't think you are just wrong, YOU ARE EVIL!!!!! I have never met an enviro-nutjob that did not admit in the end: "all they are saaaayyyiiing, is kill all the huuummmaaannns"!!!

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Here is another reason why you leftards are evil scum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVw1PANUcdg

I bet the only reason she lost is that she was saving the lives of Jews.

 

[w1z4rd]

ok Bandwidthaddict heres an easy link for you to follow ..

http://www.google.co.za/search?q=no...=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

Let me get you a clip outta the _first_ search result:

All Things Considered, September 21, 2007 · Final data on the shrinking North Pole ice cap confirms that the amount of ice there is the lowest yet recorded, with even less ice than had been reported in August. Mark Serreze, senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado, tells Melissa Block what the figures might imply.

Evidence for global warming: http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=e...evidence+for+global+warming&btnG=Search&meta=

Climate change _is_ happening, and I would think you an idiot currently if you cant understand it.

PS.. you are posting pseudoscience like stuff (they found 700 scientists that disagreed with evolution... just the hundreds of thousands of other scientists tend to cancel them out under peer review). Lol. You were taken, hook line and sinker by those creeps. Sorry mate, there is peer reviewed data confirming climate change.

Here is the current _REAL_ scientific option: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.

* 1.1 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
* 1.2 InterAcademy Council
* 1.3 Joint science academies' statement 2008
* 1.4 Joint science academies’ statement 2007
* 1.5 Joint science academies’ statement 2005
* 1.6 Joint science academies’ statement 2001
* 1.7 International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
* 1.8 European Academy of Sciences and Arts
* 1.9 Network of African Science Academies
* 1.10 National Research Council (US)
* 1.11 International Council for Science
* 1.12 European Science Foundation
* 1.13 American Association for the Advancement of Science
* 1.14 Federation of American Scientists
* 1.15 World Meteorological Organization
* 1.16 American Meteorological Society
* 1.17 Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
* 1.18 Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
* 1.19 Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
* 1.20 Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
* 1.21 International Union for Quaternary Research
* 1.22 American Quaternary Association
* 1.23 Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
* 1.24 International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
* 1.25 International Union of Geological Sciences
* 1.26 European Geosciences Union
* 1.27 Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
* 1.28 Geological Society of America
* 1.29 American Geophysical Union
* 1.30 American Astronomical Society
* 1.31 American Institute of Physics
* 1.32 American Physical Society
* 1.33 American Chemical Society
* 1.34 Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
* 1.35 Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)
* 1.36 American Statistical Association

These basic conclusions have been endorsed by at least thirty scientific societies and academies of science,[4] including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries.[5][6][7] While individual scientists have voiced disagreement with some findings of the IPCC,[8] the overwhelming majority of scientists working on climate change agree with the IPCC's main conclusions.[9][10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

Even the G8 agree that it exists.. and those countries almost never agree with each other.

Here are some links to check out:

http://www.ipcc.ch/
http://www.nature.com/climate/index.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#INTRO
http://climate.jpl.nasa.gov/ <=--- NASA
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/environment/global-warming/gw-overview.html

 

[icyrus]

This film, when released, will show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMOEVRysWE

http://www.noteviljustwrong.com/

But I don't think you are just wrong, YOU ARE EVIL!!!!! I have never met an enviro-nutjob that did not admit in the end: "all they are saaaayyyiiing, is kill all the huuummmaaannns"!!!

Here is another reason why you leftards are evil scum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVw1PANUcdg

I bet the only reason she lost is that she was saving the lives of Jews.

One can't help but wonder how a person with such obvious and extreme mental retardation is able to work out how to use a computer and the internet. Wonders never cease!

 

[Claymore]

One can't help but wonder how a person with such obvious and extreme mental retardation is able to work out how to use a computer and the internet. Wonders never cease!

In my experience, people who try to use video clips to prove something are almost invariably spouting BS.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

In my experience, people who try to use video clips to prove something are almost invariably spouting BS.

An Inconvenient Truth?

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Hey wizard, take a break from plotting the deaths of billions to read this bit of bad news:

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

Have fun

 

[BandwidthAddict]

One can't help but wonder how a person with such obvious and extreme mental retardation is able to work out how to use a computer and the internet. Wonders never cease!

I'm mental. I admit it. Even have the complementary drool sheet in place.

But does that make me wrong?

P.S. Still waiting for the promised warmening. I know it will happen in a few months or so but then again, it always does (well, I hope it does). And then it will get colder again, as it always does. You know, climate change. Warmer, colder, warmer, colder, sometimes more warmer, sometimes VERY colder. Up, down, left, right, round and round the merry-go-round.

 

[BCO]

I'm mental. I admit it. Even have the complementary drool sheet in place.

But does that make me wrong?

P.S. Still waiting for the promised warmening. I know it will happen in a few months or so but then again, it always does (well, I hope it does). And then it will get colder again, as it always does. You know, climate change. Warmer, colder, warmer, colder, sometimes more warmer, sometimes VERY colder. Up, down, left, right, round and round the merry-go-round.

Wow, poor BWA has confused the seasons with climate change.

Also, talking about videos used as evidence - nobody in this thread has mentioned An Inconvenient Truth except you.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Oh dearie, you still around?

I would have thought that, with all this heat, you would have melted by now.

I am still waiting for the warmening, it was supposed to be so warm. Just for fun, here is another look at those graphs but from a different blog:

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/what-a-difference-20-years-makes/

Yes, interesting is it?

You still have not explained this one:

http://www.weathersa.co.za/Pressroom/2008/2008Mar19MaxTemp.jsp

What was it?

Because I know you have difficulty seeing the obvious, let us bring the mountain home:

19 March 2008

Although WET and COLD conditions were experienced mostly over the north-eastern half of the country the last few days, it is the analysis of the COLD conditions that revealed some interesting facts.

A total of 51 lowest maximum temperature records as well as 2 lowest minimum temperature records (1 for the 16th from a station in KwaZulu-Natal and 1 for 17th from a station in Mpumalanga) were reported the last two days.

For Sunday the 16th a total of 20 lowest maximum temperature records were reported while for Monday the 17th a total of 31 lowest maximum temperature records were reported. For the 16th 10 records were reported from stations in Mpumalanga, 5 from stations in Gauteng, 3 from stations in North-West and 1 each from stations in the Free State and the Limpopo Province. For the 17th 10 lowest maximum temperature records were reported from North-West, 8 from stations in the Free State, 7 in Gauteng, 3 in the Limpopo Province, 2 from stations in the Northern Cape and 1 from a station in KwaZulu-Natal.

Ten stations reported new lowest maximum temperature records on both days. Five of these stations are in Gauteng, three in North-West and one each in the Free State and Limpopo Province.

The longest standing record that was broken was at Warmbath in the Limpopo Province where the previous lowest maximum temperature of 16,7 °C was recorded on 15 March 1939, nearly 70 years ago. This record was broken on both days with a maximum temperature of 16,3 °C recorded on the 16th and only 15,4 °C recorded on the 17th.

The lowest maximum temperature record of 8,1 °C measured at the Ermelo Weather Office on the 16th, was also the lowest maximum temperature reported for the whole country on that day. The lowest maximum temperature reported in South Africa for the 17th was 9,8 °C measured at Van Reenen.

51 LOWEST MAXIMUM? I thought it was supposed to be getting warmer? Should that not have made it impossible to break LOWEST MAXIMUM records?

I guess reality does not beat to a leftard tune.

Dum de dum dum dum dum rata dum dum!!!

 

[w1z4rd]

Hey wizard, take a break from plotting the deaths of billions to read this bit of bad news:

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

Have fun

Are you sober?

PS .. You ignored EVERYTHING I said. Guess you dont care about the truth. Sad.

PS... if you want to be taken seriously.. post REAL sites.. you know. REAL scientist websites, with peer reviewed data.. not this right wing "i sleep with my cousin" hick propaganda.

 

[BCO]

Are you sober?

PS .. You ignored EVERYTHING I said. Guess you dont care about the truth. Sad.

PS... if you want to be taken seriously.. post REAL sites.. you know. REAL scientist websites, with peer reviewed data.. not this right wing "i sleep with my cousin" hick propaganda.

w1z, I gave up trying to discuss issues with BWA, a week ago or so, as I've realised that all my efforts at actual debate fall upon dead ears. He clearly has an agenda and is totally unwilling to even try and look at the facts. Sad but true.

 

[w1z4rd]

w1z, I gave up trying to discuss issues with BWA, a week ago or so, as I've realised that all my efforts at actual debate fall upon dead ears. He clearly has an agenda and is totally unwilling to even try and look at the facts. Sad but true.

Yeah, he does come across a lil like a fundamental extremist. He is not interested in the truth.. one bit.

Still wondering what bwa explanation for the lack of North poll icecaps is.. and for the severe reduction of ice and snow on the Himalayas.. and for the decline in the worlds coral reefs.