Going back to the army ?

nivek

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Minister moots conscription

Johannesburg - Sending young men to the army could help end violent crime, Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana said over the weekend.

"The worrying trend whereby our youths are involved in the current spate of armed robberies and other related violent crimes that are ravaging our country could be reversed once they join the army," he said at Mamone village in Limpopo.

This was according to a statement issued by his department on Monday.

Quoting from the African National Congress' strategy and tactics document, Mdladlana continued: "Conscripting our young people would not only help inculcate discipline, but make them understand better the importance of defending our hard-earned liberation."
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2061524,00.html

Guess it could also train them on hijacking with more military precision..
 

TELESPHORE

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http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2061524,00.html

Guess it could also train them on hijacking with more military precision..
Exactly my thoughts when I read the news. The current rampaging youth cannot be cured by military conscription. The problem is at home where there is no more discipline or role models.
And it is not only impoverished kids doing this. It is just as if the current generation of parents have abdicated on guidance and discipline. Wonder if the minister knows where own kids are? Possibly would not have a of clue where they are.
No they should be conscripted to do community service to help clean the land, build roads, fix homes etc. Just like their learned friends have to do as medical students before they can enter practice.

Treat them like soldiers but please never never never ever give them a firearm or let them get near combat training. Let them learn basic norms and values an adult should have, but never received from their parents. And this goes for both black and white – before someone pulls the race card.
 

LoneGunman

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Conscription = Disaster for SA

re the dickheads in power considering conscription.
take a step back here folks..

the CURRENT crime, irrespective of origin - is coming from undisciplined,
untrained civilians who've managed to stay alive and learn enough criminal
skills to prey on everyone else.

So is it not an act of insanity, given the absence of employment
opportunities, in the foreseeable future - to provide society with a large
number of consistently well-trained (in terms of weaponry, tactics) people
who will then be just as jobless as now - except, that they have unique
military skills, which could then be used to cause even larger quantities of
crime.

This doesn't 'reverse crime' - it trains people into being EVEN MORE
EFFECTIVE with any criminal actions they might choose to have.

Furthermore - for a democratic society, to be seriously going the militaristic
route of thinking that calling up its citizens for military service, is any kind of
'answer' or 'solution' to the roots of crime (namely unemployment) shows that
the ANC is no different than the previous regime in its fascist belief that
'discipline' via militarization, can of 'use'.

Once the ANC starts pulling in and training 'soldiers' - despite there being
NO 'enemy' threatening SA's borders - then SA itself, will be heading rapidly
towards the militarized chaos of the rest of Africa..

The ANC is potentially creating a much more dangerous situation than even
the current 'crime' concept - if it starts down that slippery road of thinking
that training civilians with military know-how, is somehow an 'answer' to
joblessness.

The ANC arent stupid -if they want to see this country slip towards something
very nasty, then a conscription (without any genuine 'threat' from outside SA)
is a sneaky way of doing it - disguised as 'helping the citizens'..

Put aside the false idea that national service (as a kind of 'punishment') might be
a good idea for the current slapgat civilian population - and focus on the simple idea of:

1. So civilians get trained in national service.
2. Then what?
3. They are - after 1 or 2 years training - in NO different situation than they
are now - except for having had a lot of training in military techniques, discipline and strategy.

If SA was under attack, sure - call up the kiddies and train them. But SA is allegedly a peaceful,
democratic society - and given the record across Africa of what happens when too much military
training for the WRONG REASONS is done, methinks its time, if the ANC are dumb enough to start
conscription, for the ECC (End Conscription Campaign) to get ready to start up again.

Conscription for no good reason, and no good permanent social solution either, is too dangerous
a concept to allow to happen in SA.

As almost everywhere else in Africa, has shown historically - once you have an army - and no clearly
defined 'Enemy' or 'threat' to focus that army on. You, or someone else, is going to find ways to use it.
And almost all the ways of using an army, are extremely unpleasant for civilians.

We haven't had coups, or armed warlords - or 'resistance' militia's starting up yet. Why give CIA (or
any other foreign nation, who wants to start causing major trouble inside SA) the fuse which can be
easily lit, once there's large numbers of semi-military trained people, facing no work, no decent future.
It just takes ONE ambitious general or soldier, to smell the opportunity, at that point, and SA goes down
the drain for real..

/rant off
 
Last edited:

Syndyre

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What evidence is there that they are considering this?

Edit: Sorry, just saw the article.
 

LoneGunman

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http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2061524,00.html
Johannesburg - Sending young men to the army could help end violent crime, Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana said over the weekend.

"The worrying trend whereby our youths are involved in the current spate of armed robberies and other related violent crimes that are ravaging our country could be reversed once they join the army," he said at Mamone village in Limpopo.

This was according to a statement issued by his department on Monday.

Quoting from the African National Congress' strategy and tactics document, Mdladlana continued: "Conscripting our young people would not only help inculcate discipline, but make them understand better the importance of defending our hard-earned liberation."
 

Syndyre

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This is the dumbest idea I've heard coming from government in a while. Basically they can't handle a problem i.e. crime so they try and avoid it. Idiots.
 

Syndyre

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http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2061524,00.html
Johannesburg - Sending young men to the army could help end violent crime, Labour Minister Membathisi Mdladlana said over the weekend.

"The worrying trend whereby our youths are involved in the current spate of armed robberies and other related violent crimes that are ravaging our country could be reversed once they join the army," he said at Mamone village in Limpopo.

This was according to a statement issued by his department on Monday.

Quoting from the African National Congress' strategy and tactics document, Mdladlana continued: "Conscripting our young people would not only help inculcate discipline, but make them understand better the importance of defending our hard-earned liberation."
Yeah sorry I saw someone else had posted it, just couldn't believe even this government could be that idiotic. If they try and drag me into anything remotely resembling this I'll be heading straight for the airport. The related articles on News24 show they've been talking about it since 2000 so hopefully this is just more bluster.
 

Syndyre

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They can't solve the crime problem so they come up with other crackpot solutions it seems. Conscription has no place in a democracy unless it really is facing imminent danger. Its use in SA now would just be further evidence of a slide towards a militaristic police state.
 

telkomsuig

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i like the idea if it is combined with vocational training ie. if they have to learn a trade.
 

Syndyre

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Yes, and that is really saying something!

The stupidity of some of our ministers is beyond belief.
What's scary is that combination of stupidity and power. I don't think they'll ever implement it though, they just need to appear to be doing something. For once their inaction and ineptitude will count in our favour!
 

Syndyre

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i like the idea if it is combined with vocational training ie. if they have to learn a trade.
Why force people? They already have a voluntary program which is fine because its voluntary. I object on principle to anything where people don't have a choice.
 

nivek

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As almost everywhere else in Africa, has shown historically - once you have an army - and no clearly
defined 'Enemy' or 'threat' to focus that army on. You, or someone else, is going to find ways to use it.
And almost all the ways of using an army, are extremely unpleasant for civilians.
lol... thinking back, was it Ivy that said the US might invade?:)
 

rwenzori

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What's scary is that combination of stupidity and power. I don't think they'll ever implement it though, they just need to appear to be doing something. For once their inaction and ineptitude will count in our favour!
You're right. It is probably "imminent" and we all know what that means.
 

Syndyre

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They can take the BEE people first. LOL :D
LOL fair enough, I accept the need for transformation in the armed forces and I'm willing to make that sacrifice and allow people who were denied access under Apartheid full access. :D :p
 
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