Going solar and keeping the conventional geyser.

[W@P]

So is anyone who has gone solar still running a conventional geyser? And by running I mean through the solar system and not via Eskom through non-essentials as everyone seems to want to do.

I got quotes for fitting a new solar geyser setup and also some extra work done and it all just seems quite outrageous to me when I have a perfectly working and functional geyser.

So being of the Smart home inclined notion and already having a smart switch in place I don’t see why I couldn’t simply run the geyser when the solar “activates” and set the thermostat a bit higher at 65 instead of the current power saving 55.

I use most of my geyser power during daylight as it stands right now anyway and then a top up at night with the geyser going off completely at 20:00.

I figured I could do this one further and fit a thermal probe to the geyser so that at night it only heats up to say 45-degrees in that way still allowing for a warm enough shower without eating too much power.

It makes more sense to me to throw the money into the solar system as a whole rather than spending it on a new geyser setup when mine is working just fine right now.

I have an 8kW Sunsynk and I run the whole house on the essential side. Did not split DB. I have my 2 x 200L geysers on CBI Astute timers. They run from 13:00 to 16:00 but normally turn off by themselves at around 14:30 - 15:00. Hot water for the next morning. Don't even know the difference to before when it was running on eskom only without timers.

That's 400L of water that gets heated with excess PV. If there is not enough sun, eskom supplies the balance.

 

[Tinuva]

So is anyone who has gone solar still running a conventional geyser? And by running I mean through the solar system and not via Eskom through non-essentials as everyone seems to want to do.

I got quotes for fitting a new solar geyser setup and also some extra work done and it all just seems quite outrageous to me when I have a perfectly working and functional geyser.

So being of the Smart home inclined notion and already having a smart switch in place I don’t see why I couldn’t simply run the geyser when the solar “activates” and set the thermostat a bit higher at 65 instead of the current power saving 55.

I use most of my geyser power during daylight as it stands right now anyway and then a top up at night with the geyser going off completely at 20:00.

I figured I could do this one further and fit a thermal probe to the geyser so that at night it only heats up to say 45-degrees in that way still allowing for a warm enough shower without eating too much power.

It makes more sense to me to throw the money into the solar system as a whole rather than spending it on a new geyser setup when mine is working just fine right now.

There is nothing wrong using a conventional geyser with your solar setup. However do it right.

If you go with a 5kW inverter, you want the geyser on non-essential side. Do not be mistaken and think that your solar can't power it. It still can, as long as eskom is online, the inverter can be set to push back to non-essential side and save you on eskom bill. The reason you do not want it on the backup side, even if you carefully plan not to use all your appliances at the same time, all it takes is a split second mistake to overpower your inverter and boom the whole house goes offline. Get the switch to switch your geyser between non-essential and essential. Then you can put it on backup if eskom is down for a week, like your area's station has exploded.

If you insist on having the geyser on backup 24/7, get the 8kW inverter and be done with it.

My own setup is a 5kW inverter with 2x geysers, both with 2kW elements now so that solar can power them. At 4 and 3kW they pulled from battery or grid because solar didn't supply enough or inverter was at capacity and didn;t push back enough to non-essentials.

Also, whats with your idea on poweralls and solaredge? Do solaredge have amazing marketing or what?

Get a 8kW sunsynk inverter with a stack of pylontech batteries or hubble batteries and your money will get you double the value than you would for your preferred options. These combinations work great and are solid options to consider.

 

[Snyper564]

There is nothing wrong using a conventional geyser with your solar setup. However do it right.

If you go with a 5kW inverter, you want the geyser on non-essential side. Do not be mistaken and think that your solar can't power it. It still can, as long as eskom is online, the inverter can be set to push back to non-essential side and save you on eskom bill. The reason you do not want it on the backup side, even if you carefully plan not to use all your appliances at the same time, all it takes is a split second mistake to overpower your inverter and boom the whole house goes offline. Get the switch to switch your geyser between non-essential and essential. Then you can put it on backup if eskom is down for a week, like your area's station has exploded.

If you insist on having the geyser on backup 24/7, get the 8kW inverter and be done with it.

My own setup is a 5kW inverter with 2x geysers, both with 2kW elements now so that solar can power them. At 4 and 3kW they pulled from battery or grid because solar didn't supply enough or inverter was at capacity and didn;t push back enough to non-essentials.

Also, whats with your idea on poweralls and solaredge? Do solaredge have amazing marketing or what?

Get a 8kW sunsynk inverter with a stack of pylontech batteries or hubble batteries and your money will get you double the value than you would for your preferred options. These combinations work great and are solid options to consider.

What he said and couldn't be happier with my hubbles.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Smart switch is before the isolator, not on the DB, won’t interfere with the failover.

That’s what I was thinking. Maybe need to flip over to a smart isolator.

 

[CranialBlaze]

That’s what I was thinking. Maybe need to flip over to a smart isolator.

There was not one when I got it, honestly I did not even know what an isolator was until the electrician came to install my switch for me.

Isolator you can DIY, no certificate needed as it’s off the DB board.

Although that 2kw element sounds like a good idea as well, going to get one later as the installs are all happening hopefully this month.

 

[SauRoNZA]

There is nothing wrong using a conventional geyser with your solar setup. However do it right.

If you go with a 5kW inverter, you want the geyser on non-essential side. Do not be mistaken and think that your solar can't power it. It still can, as long as eskom is online, the inverter can be set to push back to non-essential side and save you on eskom bill. The reason you do not want it on the backup side, even if you carefully plan not to use all your appliances at the same time, all it takes is a split second mistake to overpower your inverter and boom the whole house goes offline. Get the switch to switch your geyser between non-essential and essential. Then you can put it on backup if eskom is down for a week, like your area's station has exploded.

If you insist on having the geyser on backup 24/7, get the 8kW inverter and be done with it.

My own setup is a 5kW inverter with 2x geysers, both with 2kW elements now so that solar can power them. At 4 and 3kW they pulled from battery or grid because solar didn't supply enough or inverter was at capacity and didn;t push back enough to non-essentials.

Also, whats with your idea on poweralls and solaredge? Do solaredge have amazing marketing or what?

Get a 8kW sunsynk inverter with a stack of pylontech batteries or hubble batteries and your money will get you double the value than you would for your preferred options. These combinations work great and are solid options to consider.

SolarEdge don’t use strings but instead uses optimisers at each panel.

Which means you get stats per panel and each individual panel can adjust accordingly rather than the entire string being affected.

Also (apparently) makes any potential warranty claim absolutely painless as you have logging data per panel and therefore don’t need a technician to come out and diagnose.

I’m also just a nerd for stats like that and it integrates well with HA.

The benefit combining it with the Powerwall is that because that is AC-coupled the entire house runs through it and it sustains a higher load with a 7kw inverter and I think it was a 10kw peak overload don’t remember exactly now, and you’d need a much smaller inverter on the solar side of things.

But it’s been ages since I first had this conversation with installers and things have probably changed quite a bit since then and I’ll obviously look at it all again come crunch time.

The Powerwall was more expensive but not drastically so.

I also seem to remember something about it being the only AC-coupled system allowed by CoCT and therefore doesn’t have to turn off and switch over when load shedding happens. Or am I losing the plot there?

 

[SauRoNZA]

I apologize for not reading everything I am currently running an evac system but with my 3kw elements in for top up.

I have my entire house including oven induction stove and geyser all on essential. Goal of our system was to be off grid as much as possible and still have everything run "as normal"

It works no problem when I need to ramp it on days the evac isnt enough.

My 2c if you going full solar DO NOT go evac/collection tube etc. Take that money and add it to your system.

Yeah definitely not interested in Evac tubes or any of the those kind of setups.

It would always have been the thermodynamic setup or conventional, but now I find myself wondering if anyone it is really worth it at just about 40k.

Over 10 years it starts to make sense but not much before that.

Also it’s a concern for me with insurance and what if it breaks hence why I wanted to keep the old system in parallel but what they want to charge to make that work simply doesn’t justify it.

Also go the 8kw sunsynk route then you never ever have to think about whether you should turn something on or off.

Yeah I think that’s a given if I keep the conventional geyser to have a 7-8kw inverter and all the headroom I possibly need.

Hence why I was thinking potentially Powerwall again which I just happened to get quoted on before as I’d have 40k-odd spare to push in elsewhere.

 

[Tinuva]

SolarEdge don’t use strings but instead uses optimisers at each panel.

Which means you get stats per panel and each individual panel can adjust accordingly rather than the entire string being affected.

Also (apparently) makes any potential warranty claim absolutely painless as you have logging data per panel and therefore don’t need a technician to come out and diagnose.

I’m also just a nerd for stats like that and it integrates well with HA.

The benefit combining it with the Powerwall is that because that is AC-coupled the entire house runs through it and it sustains a higher load with a 7kw inverter and I think it was a 10kw peak overload don’t remember exactly now, and you’d need a much smaller inverter on the solar side of things.

But it’s been ages since I first had this conversation with installers and things have probably changed quite a bit since then and I’ll obviously look at it all again come crunch time.

The Powerwall was more expensive but not drastically so.

I also seem to remember something about it being the only AC-coupled system allowed by CoCT and therefore doesn’t have to turn off and switch over when load shedding happens. Or am I losing the plot there?

ok the per panel stats are cool. Really depends on how much more this will cost though to figure it out if it is worth it.

While the powerwall can do 7kW, thats cool but so can other batteries if the inverter can. I guess the powerwall has a 7kW inverter included to make it ac-coupled.

CoCT has a whole list of approved inverters. https://resource.capetown.gov.za/do.../Approved Photovoltaic (PV) Inverter List.pdf

At the time I did my system, the sunsynk inverters were not in the list. Then when I had it installed, I heard it is now on the list. So it gets updated frequently. Last update was 2021-december according to https://www.capetown.gov.za/Family and home/Greener-living/Saving-electricity-at-home/going-solar

Anyways, I guess get your quote and compare it to @Snyper564 's system.

 

[Snyper564]

ok the per panel stats are cool. Really depends on how much more this will cost though to figure it out if it is worth it.

While the powerwall can do 7kW, thats cool but so can other batteries if the inverter can. I guess the powerwall has a 7kW inverter included to make it ac-coupled.

CoCT has a whole list of approved inverters. https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Forms, notices, tariffs and lists/Approved Photovoltaic (PV) Inverter List.pdf

At the time I did my system, the sunsynk inverters were not in the list. Then when I had it installed, I heard it is now on the list. So it gets updated frequently. Last update was 2021-december according to https://www.capetown.gov.za/Family and home/Greener-living/Saving-electricity-at-home/going-solar

Anyways, I guess get your quote and compare it to @Snyper564 's system.

I think those solar edge optimizers are very expensive and also changes the entire wiring of the system.

It seriously complicates the system but I talk under correction.

Yeah looking at what you planning you might end up paying double, have a look at my set up couldn't be happier grid is off and only had it on once this month.

 

[SauRoNZA]

ok the per panel stats are cool. Really depends on how much more this will cost though to figure it out if it is worth it.

While the powerwall can do 7kW, thats cool but so can other batteries if the inverter can. I guess the powerwall has a 7kW inverter included to make it ac-coupled.

CoCT has a whole list of approved inverters. https://resource.capetown.gov.za/do.../Approved Photovoltaic (PV) Inverter List.pdf

At the time I did my system, the sunsynk inverters were not in the list. Then when I had it installed, I heard it is now on the list. So it gets updated frequently. Last update was 2021-december according to https://www.capetown.gov.za/Family and home/Greener-living/Saving-electricity-at-home/going-solar

Anyways, I guess get your quote and compare it to @Snyper564 's system.

Yeah SolarEdge was off the list for a while as well which is actually what stopped me doing it originally as I was going to bolt it onto my home loan back then.

Instead I’ve hoarded the cash and waiting for some more end of February before pulling the trigger.

Yeah the inverter is included in the Powerwall AC side but for some reason we didn’t get the one here that included the solar inverter but that also means couldn’t use the SolarEdge optimisers anyways.

I’ll be getting new fresh quotes soon and likely post them here as well.

Just really posted this thread to see if I’m insane.

 

[Snyper564]

Yeah SolarEdge was off the list for a while as well which is actually what stopped me doing it originally as I was going to bolt it onto my home loan back then.

Instead I’ve hoarded the cash and waiting for some more end of February before pulling the trigger.

Yeah the inverter is included in the Powerwall AC side but for some reason we didn’t get the one here that included the solar inverter but that also means couldn’t use the SolarEdge optimisers anyways.

I’ll be getting new fresh quotes soon and likely post them here as well.

Just really posted this thread to see if I’m insane.

If I had to guess your quotes are going to come in 250 to 400k

 

[SauRoNZA]

If I had to guess your quotes are going to come in 250 to 400k

Stand to be corrected think it was 250-280k between different options in the tiers I wanted yeah.

 

[Snyper564]

Stand to be corrected think it was 250-280k between different options in the tiers I wanted yeah.

ah ok, when you get the quotes maybe just pop them here to "sanity check" them if you want

 

[SauRoNZA]

ah ok, when you get the quotes maybe just pop them here to "sanity check" them if you want

For sure.

It was always more or less what I expected and never unreasonable for what it was, I always had realistic expectations.

It’s just where to move the money.

I recall Geyserwise has a dual AC/DC element where you attached it to two solar panels to run on solar in daylight but this seems a bit silly when you are doing a full solar setup over AC anyway and rather put those two panels into the larger array and inverter setup.

 

[s0lar]

Most on this thread have invested pretty heavily. Why no consideration for gas?

I had a few on rural property a few years back. Worked great and cost effective. Only additional expense was an annual service which I elected for rather than mandated.

 

[W@P]

Yeah SolarEdge was off the list for a while as well which is actually what stopped me doing it originally as I was going to bolt it onto my home loan back then.

Instead I’ve hoarded the cash and waiting for some more end of February before pulling the trigger.

Yeah the inverter is included in the Powerwall AC side but for some reason we didn’t get the one here that included the solar inverter but that also means couldn’t use the SolarEdge optimisers anyways.

I’ll be getting new fresh quotes soon and likely post them here as well.

Just really posted this thread to see if I’m insane.

Good luck getting all the quotes. It's a fun exercise and mind game. And getting opinions are free.
If I could change anything on my install it would have been to not ordering the RIOT cloudlink, and also using the trunking I had in mind and not the galvanized trunking that my installer used.

Also, I would have perhaps drawn up a sketch of how the components should be installed on the wall. To make it look more professional. There are some okes installs that look unreal. Except for that, I am happy.

 

[Snyper564]

Good luck getting all the quotes. It's a fun exercise and mind game. And getting opinions are free.
If I could change anything on my install it would have been to not ordering the RIOT cloudlink, and also using the trunking I had in mind and not the galvanized trunking that my installer used.

Also, I would have perhaps drawn up a sketch of how the components should be installed on the wall. To make it look more professional. There are some okes installs that look unreal. Except for that, I am happy.

I echo the riot and I also had a look at many installs to explain how I wanted mine done.

I also asked for the batteries to be as close the ground as possible to keep their temperature as low as possible.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Most on this thread have invested pretty heavily. Why no consideration for gas?

I had a few on rural property a few years back. Worked great and cost effective. Only additional expense was an annual service which I elected for rather than mandated.

I despise gas to cook with.

Also again have a perfectly working geyser which would be no effort once this is installed.

Gas means changing bottles and maintenance and cost over time.

 

[W@P]

I despise gas to cook with.

Also again have a perfectly working geyser which would be no effort once this is installed.

Gas means changing bottles and maintenance and cost over time.

I have 2 of these. One for backup and one connected. They last forever.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Good luck getting all the quotes. It's a fun exercise and mind game. And getting opinions are free.
If I could change anything on my install it would have been to not ordering the RIOT cloudlink, and also using the trunking I had in mind and not the galvanized trunking that my installer used.

Also, I would have perhaps drawn up a sketch of how the components should be installed on the wall. To make it look more professional. There are some okes installs that look unreal. Except for that, I am happy.

Yeah I’ve gotten the original metering done by one company to see my usage and get an idea of what I need.

Subsequently dealt with a few recommended other options and the levels of lack of caring or treating you like an idiot very quickly tells you where you want to have a longer term relationship.

So I’ve been quite happy with Greensun and how they handled me overall and especially that they weren’t super pushy for a sale and will likely end up going there.

Longer term relationship is more important to me than simple costs up front.

Another reason I liked SolarEdge I remember now was the 25-year warranty option.