Going solar and keeping the conventional geyser.

[itareanlnotani]

So looking into the geyser element and found

Energy Efficient Geyser Element - Solar Advice

Swap your energy inefficient electric geyser element with this PTC element and save up to 25% on your electricity bill. Features 25% Energy Savings Tested t ...

solaradvice.co.za

Think it was mentioned though, so at 2k, why would I buy this when a normal 2kw element is a quarter of the price.

If it’s really that much better than I’ll drop the cash, but if the only difference based on the information they providing is the efficiency then based on current thermal patterns with my geyser it’s basically going to save me 6-8 minutes per geyser warm up.

There has to be a better reason than that to justify the cost given solar would be the primary source of powering the heating…???

Cheaper - (although 1.5kw)

Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 230V Electrical Geyser Element 1.5kw | LiveStainable

Buy Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 230V Electrical Geyser Element 1.5kw - Energy-saving capabilities

www.livestainable.co.za

2kw (still cheaper)

Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 230V Electrical Geyser Element 2kw | LiveStainable

Buy Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 230V Electrical Geyser Element 2kw - Energy-saving capabilities

www.livestainable.co.za

Your main reason for buying it is that they last longer.
I've had a few muppet tenants blow elements by not turning off the geyser when the water is cut off, and running the hot water to empty. PTC should be immune to that.

Efficiency wise, they're fairly similar, those claims are mostly BS.
Good discussion here - https://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums...on-To-Reduce-Your-Hot-Water-Consumption-By-50


Also have DC versions @TheChamp

Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 1.5kw AC 900w (48-72V) DC Geyser Element | LiveStainable

Buy Geyserwise PTC Stainless Steel 1.5kw AC 900w (48-72V) DC Geyser Element - GeyserWise has developed an immersion heater element that offers inherent safety

www.livestainable.co.za

DC versions can be powered direct from 2x 200 to 300watt +- panels.

 

[Snyper564]

I’m sitting with 30 year old AMC classics, I moved in with induction and chucked it out a month later.

I love the instant heat change I get with gas, the induction was just too finicky, who the eff thought it could be a good idea to make a completely touch controlled service with zero indication of what anything’s doing, and an insensitive one at that.

Maybe it was a kak one, but I still was not about to replace nearly indestructible old days quality pots with over priced modern day mass produced in China ****.

Also don’t get how terrible and inefficient induction is for charging, but it’s an absolute baller for cooking, why have phones not stolen whatever makes pots actually not toss away half the energy.

Likely a kak one, I don't think I can use anything but induction

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I am considering solar conversion as an alternate to the full PV but is it worth it as I have 3 geysers.

Better to invest funds in solat panels rather. This is my issue/s.

You can run other stuff off your PV. And it'll help more in cloudy weather.

Putting the money into your geyser will only go towards your geyser. Rather invest long term into everything, than short term into one thing...

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I’m sitting with 30 year old AMC classics, I moved in with induction and chucked it out a month later.

I love the instant heat change I get with gas, the induction was just too finicky, who the eff thought it could be a good idea to make a completely touch controlled service with zero indication of what anything’s doing, and an insensitive one at that.

Maybe it was a kak one, but I still was not about to replace nearly indestructible old days quality pots with over priced modern day mass produced in China ****.

Also don’t get how terrible and inefficient induction is for charging, but it’s an absolute baller for cooking, why have phones not stolen whatever makes pots actually not toss away half the energy.

Yep, gas or GTFO. Also one less thing to add load to your system...

 

[SauRoNZA]

I’m sitting with 30 year old AMC classics, I moved in with induction and chucked it out a month later.

I love the instant heat change I get with gas, the induction was just too finicky, who the eff thought it could be a good idea to make a completely touch controlled service with zero indication of what anything’s doing, and an insensitive one at that.

Maybe it was a kak one, but I still was not about to replace nearly indestructible old days quality pots with over priced modern day mass produced in China ****.

Also don’t get how terrible and inefficient induction is for charging, but it’s an absolute baller for cooking, why have phones not stolen whatever makes pots actually not toss away half the energy.

Sounds like you had a very crap one with crap controls and never actually experienced induction cooking in any meaningful way.

Induction is equal or even more instant than gas. Even more so if you consider the time to light the flame.

Heating vs Charging are two very different things. Your phone isn’t being charged by a 1200W coil.

Ironically my induction cooker is a Xiaomi one straight from China.

 

[CranialBlaze]

Sounds like you had a very crap one with crap controls and never actually experienced induction cooking in any meaningful way.

Induction is equal or even more instant than gas. Even more so if you consider the time to light the flame.

Heating vs Charging are two very different things. Your phone isn’t being charged by a 1200W coil.

Ironically my induction cooker is a Xiaomi one straight from China.

Yeah, but 3k for a gas top that works amazingly, honestly even if I did spend a few grand on cookware to give it a sold shot, I’d still end up paying like 8x the price of the gas stove to replace all the cookware which is just daft.

My cookware is going to outlive me, there is not a snowballs hope in hell anything I buy today will come close to that.

The guy I got the house from also went gas in he’s new place, come to think of it everyone I know who owns a house went gas. I also don’t see induction beating
the R30/mo I am spending on gas.

It was/is immune to load shedding which was also a consideration given the lack of solar panels. Sure later this month or next month it will be neither here no there, but it’s been pretty useful not having to rearrange a cooking schedule around Eksdom.

There was also that option, when in desperate need of a coffee during the early am sheds to boil water on the gas stove and use the hand grinder and aeropress to ensure I was not arrested for murder that day. One could argue that gas stoves save lives …

 

[Mystic Twilight]

Be careful that the inverter is listed as certified on the Cape Town inverter list. EVEN if you aren't in Cape Town.
You want something that will pass NRS certification, so only pick certified equipment.

You can google the spreadsheet link, its not too hard to find.

Cape Town is ahead of most other muni's in that respect - as they have the most to lose and put up the most roadblocks.

Other muni's follow what they do.. eventually, so don't buy something that you might have to change at some point as they go tough, can't be connected to our systems.

It's on the list (well the brand is, can't say for certain the exact model number) as per the link provided back here page 4. Since I don't live in CT, what's the issue if it isn't certified?

 

[Priapus]

Yes. I heat up my 200L geyser through my solar setup. Put a 2kw element in there. Heats up to 60c and at night if it didn’t get to 60c I top up on the grid.

 

[itareanlnotani]

It's on the list (well the brand is, can't say for certain the exact model number) as per the link provided back here page 4. Since I don't live in CT, what's the issue if it isn't certified?

I thought I was clear, have highlighted the relevant part again.

Also just because a brand is listed, doesn't mean all their product is certified (or certifiable).
Ensure that the model number you are buying is listed.

Kodak / Mustek / Axpert (sometimes the same inverter rebranded) are not all legal to connect to the grid here in SA.
Buyer beware. Again, it may not matter now, but at some point in the future, it likely will do, and you'll need to replace it with something that is. Rather not have to do that, and get something that is NRS certified.

Anyone who tells you otherwise - i.e. don't worry about it isn't taking that risk on. Will they replace it with a new unit at their expense when you get caught with illegal(ly connected) equipment? Likely not.
It's your money, make an educated choice/purchase.

Be careful that the inverter is listed as certified on the Cape Town inverter list. EVEN if you aren't in Cape Town.
You want something that will pass NRS certification, so only pick certified equipment.

You can google the spreadsheet link, its not too hard to find.

Cape Town is ahead of most other muni's in that respect - as they have the most to lose and put up the most roadblocks.

Other muni's follow what they do.. eventually, so don't buy something that you might have to change at some point as they go tough, can't be connected to our systems.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yes. I heat up my 200L geyser through my solar setup. Put a 2kw element in there. Heats up to 60c and at night if it didn’t get to 60c I top up on the grid.

Why the change to 2kw by everyone?

Just because of small inverter?

 

[W@P]

Why the change to 2kw by everyone?

Just because of small inverter?

Also not sure why it gets suggested by a lot of people. I don't have any intention to replace my geyser elements with smaller ones. Firstly I don't see the benefit, I might be wrong, and secondly, it's an absolute PITA to get inside my roof. Absolutely no space to move around.

 

[Tinuva]

Why the change to 2kw by everyone?

Just because of small inverter?

Well I think even on a 8kW inverter I would prefer a 2kW element.

1. Can run while other stuff run when sun power.
2. Just because you have 10kW panels doesn't mean you will get the max 8kW the inverter can do from sun
3. If it does run OK batteries, the batteries will last longer, lifespan, using less C on them. Just because they can do a lot doesn't mean you should max them. This is almost the most important fact for me.

If geyser takes 3 hours to heat, that's OK.

 

[Tinuva]

Also not sure why it gets suggested by a lot of people. I don't have any intention to replace my geyser elements with smaller ones. Firstly I don't see the benefit, I might be wrong, and secondly, it's an absolute PITA to get inside my roof. Absolutely no space to move around.

This is why I paid a plumber from my neighborhood to do the elements and anodes for me all in one go. Also added 2 leaks to the list of odds and ends to do.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Well I think even on a 8kW inverter I would prefer a 2kW element.

1. Can run while other stuff run when sun power.
2. Just because you have 10kW panels doesn't mean you will get the max 8kW the inverter can do from sun
3. If it does run OK batteries, the batteries will last longer, lifespan, using less C on them. Just because they can do a lot doesn't mean you should max them. This is almost the most important fact for me.

If geyser takes 3 hours to heat, that's OK.

My logic is just that geyser will use the same amount of power and just take longer and also with time (sun) being of the essence the 3kW surely is the better way.

But something easy to monitor and change down the line for sure.

 

[ijacobs3]

So is anyone who has gone solar still running a conventional geyser? And by running I mean through the solar system and not via Eskom through non-essentials as everyone seems to want to do.

I got quotes for fitting a new solar geyser setup and also some extra work done and it all just seems quite outrageous to me when I have a perfectly working and functional geyser.

So being of the Smart home inclined notion and already having a smart switch in place I don’t see why I couldn’t simply run the geyser when the solar “activates” and set the thermostat a bit higher at 65 instead of the current power saving 55.

I use most of my geyser power during daylight as it stands right now anyway and then a top up at night with the geyser going off completely at 20:00.

I figured I could do this one further and fit a thermal probe to the geyser so that at night it only heats up to say 45-degrees in that way still allowing for a warm enough shower without eating too much power.

It makes more sense to me to throw the money into the solar system as a whole rather than spending it on a new geyser setup when mine is working just fine right now.

rather go heat pump

 

[Tinuva]

My logic is just that geyser will use the same amount of power and just take longer and also with time (sun) being of the essence the 3kW surely is the better way.

But something easy to monitor and change down the line for sure.

Yeah like I said, it's not about the usage, it's about the peak power available from Sun at the instant it runs and also being gentle with your batteries.

 

[SauRoNZA]

rather go heat pump

Thermodynamic heat pump is exactly what I was going for, but it’s a full geyser replacement.

Retrofitting the heat pump to an existing geyser is an option but still won’t be as efficient at night.

Not convinced the head pump will be worth it either.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah like I said, it's not about the usage, it's about the peak power available from Sun at the instant it runs and also being gentle with your batteries.

Maybe a stupid question but what happens when your solar input is 2kWbut your load requirement is 3kW?

Does it take all 3kW from the battery? Or does it split it 2kW sun and 1kW battery.

The latter is what makes obvious sense to me, but just checking I haven’t missed a major deal here.

I know with the Powerwall being AC-coupled that was how it works, but not sure if the same
applies for more conventional hybrid install.

 

[ijacobs3]

Thermodynamic heat pump is exactly what I was going for, but it’s a full geyser replacement.

Retrofitting the heat pump to an existing geyser is an option but still won’t be as efficient at night.

Not convinced the head pump will be worth it either.

i've done the heat pump thing, went for the setup that uses the geyser tank as "storage" it cycles the water through the tank with a pump inside the unit,

at its max when running it draws around 800w , Our power usage has gone from around 1500-2000 units a month to 700-1000

 

[SauRoNZA]

i've done the heat pump thing, went for the setup that uses the geyser tank as "storage" it cycles the water through the tank with a pump inside the unit,

at its max when running it draws around 800w , Our power usage has gone from around 1500-2000 units a month to 700-1000

I seem to recall you or someone else posting yeah.

Wasn’t it still like 20k?