Gordhan cancels Christmas break for Eskom execs

Cray

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#85
A very simple way of looking at it, unless you apply the collective responsibility approach, which you would also need to apply to Pravin and everyone in government.
Not a fan of this approach - reward/punish individuals for their own job performance,. If you don't reward people for excelling at their job just because some others suck then their is no incentives to ever achieve above and beyond.
 

Mista_Mobsta

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#86
Not a fan of this approach - reward/punish individuals for their own job performance,. If you don't reward people for excelling at their job just because some others suck then their is no incentives to ever achieve above and beyond.
Agreed 100%. First port of call would be to take Molefe to task. All these inquiries may seem useless but at least it's a start to give these politically connected a large enough rope to coil around the branch. I hope the new NPA head will have the teeth and expertise around her to take these corrupt cronies straight past GO and into jail.


I am sure a lot of middle- and some senior management were definitely not aware of what the board and Top Management were doing and punishing them will just lead to even lower morale.
 

Ancalagon

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#88
A very simple way of looking at it, unless you apply the collective responsibility approach, which you would also need to apply to Pravin and everyone in government.
What good does collective responsibility do? It means there is no incentive to working hard. You work hard, but because Frikkie over there next to you didn't do his job, you get no raise and no bonus.

This is why meritocracies tend to bring out the best in people - performance wise anyway. You are more motivated to work because you and only you are responsible for whether you get a raise, a promotion or a bonus.
 

ArtyLoop

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#89
I dispise communism, people that lived under that system and fled will tell you how horrible it is. thechamp does not believe in private property rights, he's all for the effs state owned property rights bs.
I also despise it but it seems it’s the reality we face for the foreseeable future
 

kota

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#90
I am glad that Pravin is giving eskom's management the middle finger, but I doubt anything constructive will happen in this period. Since everyone else is going on leave, all these managers can do is probably to brainstorm on how they can minimize breakdowns or work more efficiently, then ask the guys below them to draw up a concrete plan once they are all back from leave... Can't wait to see someone posting photos of all these managers standing behind the workers looking at him working on site during xmas lol
 

ISP cash cow

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#91
A very simple way of looking at it, unless you apply the collective responsibility approach, which you would also need to apply to Pravin and everyone in government.
But he has just been made Minister of Public Enterprises. If it was Lynne Brown that you wanted to cancel the bonus for, then I am all for it

Pravin has just got there and at least is showing a bit of backbone standing up to the board.
 
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#92
But Eskom Execs bonuses are generally based on performance and I honestly don't see any performance coming out of Eskom (Product or accounting wise) that leads me to believe that they should get bonuses in the first place.

In all the SOE's it is the same thing, where the perform poorly and still get paid their annual performance bonus. Like who assesses this?
You assume the execs are the same as the ones that got us into this mess? Those guys have probably long since been given a golden handshake.
It would be unfair to penalise the guys who took over a (hypothetical) R1bil pa loss company and turned it into a (hypothetical) R800 mil pa loss company. If it is not as bad as it was, they did improve things.

If you want penalise someone for not achieving miracles in fixing their predecessors fkups, then you won't get anyone even remotely competent to take the job.
 

thechamp

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#93
But he has just been made Minister of Public Enterprises. If it was Lynne Brown that you wanted to cancel the bonus for, then I am all for it

Pravin has just got there and at least is showing a bit of backbone standing up to the board.
I am sure there are a couple of managers there doing their job dilligently, it took just Hlaudi and a couple of people to bring the SABC to where it is now, it took Zuma and a couple of his supporters to bring the country to this state.

I have nothing against Pravin and I admire the hard work that he is doing, I also recognise that it is not the whole Eskom management that is rotten and incompetent, what I see here is that people just want to apply some blanket sanction to everyone in the Eskom management by taking their bonuses away, hence i say If Pravin were to do that I would quickly join the EFF to demand that his benefits are taken away for merely serving in Zuma's cabinet, we might as well pin all our problems on him as well.
 

thechamp

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#94
You assume the execs are the same as the ones that got us into this mess? Those guys have probably long since been given a golden handshake.
It would be unfair to penalise the guys who took over a (hypothetical) R1bil pa loss company and turned it into a (hypothetical) R800 mil pa loss company. If it is not as bad as it was, they did improve things.

If you want penalise someone for not achieving miracles in fixing their predecessors fkups, then you won't get anyone even remotely competent to take the job.
Exactly this, thanks Conan.
 

ToxicBunny

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#95
A very simple way of looking at it, unless you apply the collective responsibility approach, which you would also need to apply to Pravin and everyone in government.
Nah collective responsibility doesn't work in situations like this.. it just ends up being a round robin blame game and nothing changes.
 

ISP cash cow

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#96
You assume the execs are the same as the ones that got us into this mess? Those guys have probably long since been given a golden handshake.
It would be unfair to penalise the guys who took over a (hypothetical) R1bil pa loss company and turned it into a (hypothetical) R800 mil pa loss company. If it is not as bad as it was, they did improve things.

If you want penalise someone for not achieving miracles in fixing their predecessors fkups, then you won't get anyone even remotely competent to take the job.
I am sure there are a couple of managers there doing their job dilligently, it took just Hlaudi and a couple of people to bring the SABC to where it is now, it took Zuma and a couple of his supporters to bring the country to this state.

I have nothing against Pravin and I admire the hard work that he is doing, I also recognise that it is not the whole Eskom management that is rotten and incompetent, what Is see here is that people just want to apply some blanket sanction to everyone in the Eskom management by taking their bonuses away.
I get what you guys are saying but performance bonuses are just that, bonuses based on the performance. I would have imagined that the new Execs being implemented into the positions would have signed an agreement which stated that they would be paid a bonus paid on x,y and z.

As far as I can see the accounting has got worse at Eskom (owing even more money) and now once again they cannot even generate enough power (or even get their already overdue power stations built in time). So I honestly do not see why they should receive their Executive bonuses.

The funny thing is that as an executive in a failing SoE, the fact that your minister has to come into the office and put all leave on hold and threaten top management bonuses speaks measurably about your executive skills for not seeing this as a CEO or COO to do in the first place.

In my opinion this loadshedding B@llsh!t is smoke and mirrors for the Execs to eek out more increases for electricity from NERSA, and they happy to put the whole country under strain while they go to Dubai over Christmas or some other country on holiday. Now all of a sudden when Pravin breaks the leave cycle for the Execs then things have slightly improved and we are now on load shedding schedule 1 instead of 2 (automatically overnight)

I say let the executives be accountable for what job they have taken on and get paid the fat salaries and bonuses for. If they cannot reach their mandated targets, or improve (which obviously they have not) well then bonuses get cut.
 

thechamp

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#97
I get what you guys are saying but performance bonuses are just that, bonuses based on the performance. I would have imagined that the new Execs being implemented into the positions would have signed an agreement which stated that they would be paid a bonus paid on x,y and z.

As far as I can see the accounting has got worse at Eskom (owing even more money) and now once again they cannot even generate enough power (or even get their already overdue power stations built in time). So I honestly do not see why they should receive their Executive bonuses.

The funny thing is that as an executive in a failing SoE, the fact that your minister has to come into the office and put all leave on hold and threaten top management bonuses speaks measurably about your executive skills for not seeing this as a CEO or COO to do in the first place.

In my opinion this loadshedding B@llsh!t is smoke and mirrors for the Execs to eek out more increases for electricity from NERSA, and they happy to put the whole country under strain while they go to Dubai over Christmas or some other country on holiday. Now all of a sudden when Pravin breaks the leave cycle for the Execs then things have slightly improved and we are now on load shedding schedule 1 instead of 2 (automatically overnight)

I say let the executives be accountable for what job they have taken on and get paid the fat salaries and bonuses for. If they cannot reach their mandated targets, or improve (which obviously they have not) well then bonuses get cut.
I agree fully, and with Pravin keeping a keen eye on proceedings I think that things will be tightened around the bonus payments.
 
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#98
I also despise it but it seems it’s the reality we face for the foreseeable future
I have met people who lived in Communist states, and wanted them back when they were changed to 'democracies'. It seemed to be settling for second best and security versus the chance to make a go of it on your own. Not everyone is entrepreneurial, but unfortunately some of those who are not want the rewards without the risk and hassle.
 

ArtyLoop

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#99
And now this morning a spokesperson for Eskom said that overnight the situation has somewhat improved and they will only go to Stage 1 today. Coincidence?
No coincidence... its the same story again... waiting for the next bit of announcement
 
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