Government’s new plan to let learners finish school at Grade 9

[ponder]

IQ tests merely measure your ability at doing IQ tests.

Nope, there is also correlation wrt career success, wealth etc

 

[rwenzori]

Nope, there is also correlation wrt career success, wealth etc

Maybe so, but they do not measure intelligence. Also, plenty thick turds have career success and wealth - ask Julius and Floyd, and innumerable others.

 

[_TrXtR_]

Just give better alternative education options.
This is just another excuse for an idiot like zuma to be created or to find a way to look better about the current f up of uneducated people. The more the merrier.

 

[2023]

You could always just leave school after grade 9, but now you get a certificate of effort with it.

Not much else to say really.

 

[noxibox]

Or how about we have schools actually teach things we need in life like how to do your taxes, dealing with work stress, budgeting and and.

Those would all fall under the Life Orientation class that South Africa has, and it really doesn't require all that much time to cover above list. Schooling should not be seen as simply life or vocational training.

Yup and the CAPS system we have in place is really dumb as well. Looking at moving my son to a cottage school that's with that home schooling trust. Cause we have no government schools in our area, the private schools are coining it because of this but their educational standards are basically government with maybe a bit more, just the whole trying to squeeze kids into boxes doesn't really help either.

Many private schools simply use the South African government's curriculum, but that doesn't prevent them from offering a superior academic environment or more challenging exams. The main problem I see is that they still adhere to ideas like having all the children dressed the same, sitting in neat little rows while a teacher talks at them. Not exactly the best environment for growing self-motivated individuals who can think for themselves.

 

[ponder]

You could always just leave school after grade 9, but now you get a certificate of effort with it.

Pretty sure it was after std. 8 / grade 10 before, now it's a year earlier.

 

[Lupus]

Nope, there is also correlation wrt career success, wealth etc

Well it actually would more fall into social-economic scales, higher IQs are generally shown in areas with better socio-economic statuses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4641149/
Which ties into the fact that IQ tests are normally written for those people.

 

[Lupus]

Those would all fall under the Life Orientation class that South Africa has, and it really doesn't require all that much time to cover above list. Schooling should not be seen as simply life or vocational training.


Many private schools simply use the South African government's curriculum, but that doesn't prevent them from offering a superior academic environment or more challenging exams. The main problem I see is that they still adhere to ideas like having all the children dressed the same, sitting in neat little rows while a teacher talks at them. Not exactly the best environment for growing self-motivated individuals who can think for themselves.

Never had life orientation when I was in school. Was never taught about anything in the real world.

 

[konfab]

An IQ test doesn't indicate someones intelligence, it just indicates someone knows how to do an IQ test.

IQ tests merely measure your ability at doing IQ tests.

A Phd in computational chemistry doesn't indicate someone's intelligence, it just indicates someone knows how to get a Phd in computational chemistry.
A blood glucose test doesn't indicate whether you have diabetes, it just indicates someone has a particular blood glucose level.
Coughing up blood doesn't indicate that you have a lung problem, it just indicates you are coughing up blood.
Getting pregnant doesn't indicate that you are going to give birth do a baby, it just indicates you are pregnant.

This is the logic you are working with. It is stupid when you apply it to anything else, so come up with a better argument. Like providing some evidence like I asked you to do...

Let's start from the top.
Do you think intelligence exists? That is, that the ability to learn how to do complex tasks exists and it is relevant to society?

 

[Lupus]

A Phd in computational chemistry doesn't indicate someone's intelligence, it just indicates someone knows how to get a Phd in computational chemistry.
A blood glucose test doesn't indicate whether you have diabetes, it just indicates someone has a particular blood glucose level.
Coughing up blood doesn't indicate that you have a lung problem, it just indicates you are coughing up blood.
Getting pregnant doesn't indicate that you are going to give birth do a baby, it just indicates you are pregnant.

This is the logic you are working with. It is stupid when you apply it to anything else, so come up with a better argument. Like providing some evidence like I asked you to do...

Let's start from the top.
Do you think intelligence exists? That is, that the ability to learn how to do complex tasks exists and it is relevant to society?

Socioeconomic status and the growth of intelligence from infancy through adolescence

Low socioeconomic status (SES) children perform on average worse on intelligence tests than children from higher SES backgrounds, but the developmental relationship between intelligence and SES has not been adequately investigated. Here, we use latent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why a high IQ doesn't mean you're smart

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427321.000-clever-fools-why-a-high-iq-doesnt-mean-youre-smart.html

som.yale.edu

17 signs you're intelligent - even if it doesn't feel like it

From learning an instrument to staying up late, you may be displaying signs of intelligence which you're not aware of

www.independent.co.uk

Do People With High IQ Enjoy Greater Success?

High IQ people are often assumed to be more successful, but research shows that the connection between IQ and success is complicated. Learn what research has shown.

www.verywellmind.com

Intelligence exists, but the traditional IQ test doesn't show us that. Also doing well in life doesn't rely on your IQ it can also rely on your EQ and being able to deal with people.
Our issue in South Africa is the ANC's complete lack of caring about the people it's supposed to serve. Spouting things like look at our low IQ scores that's why the country is doing so badly is because the average person is dumb.
Firstly actually working on averages isn't easy, secondly the reason why the IQs are low is because the people generally grow up in poor conditions and aren' exposed to things that would help them. That's why all the "failed" countries have low IQ scores, it's not because they are inherently dumb, it's because they are "failed" countries and have made no strides to pick up their people.

 

[konfab]

Maybe so, but they do not measure intelligence. Also, plenty thick turds have career success and wealth - ask Julius and Floyd, and innumerable others.

So lets get this straight, an objective test that is constructed statistically to measure intelligence, doesn't measure intelligence.
Yet Professor Doctor Rwenzori has an objective metric to determine that Julius, Floyd and innumerable others are actually thick turds...

 

[Lupus]

So lets get this straight, an objective test that is constructed statistically to measure intelligence, doesn't measure intelligence.
Yet Professor Doctor Rwenzori has an objective metric to determine that Julius, Floyd and innumerable others are actually thick turds...

That's the thing, an IQ test isn't objective. Not the traditional ones anyway.

IQ tests 'do not reflect intelligence'

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[konfab]

Socioeconomic status and the growth of intelligence from infancy through adolescence

Low socioeconomic status (SES) children perform on average worse on intelligence tests than children from higher SES backgrounds, but the developmental relationship between intelligence and SES has not been adequately investigated. Here, we use latent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why a high IQ doesn't mean you're smart

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427321.000-clever-fools-why-a-high-iq-doesnt-mean-youre-smart.html

som.yale.edu

17 signs you're intelligent - even if it doesn't feel like it

From learning an instrument to staying up late, you may be displaying signs of intelligence which you're not aware of

www.independent.co.uk

Do People With High IQ Enjoy Greater Success?

High IQ people are often assumed to be more successful, but research shows that the connection between IQ and success is complicated. Learn what research has shown.

www.verywellmind.com

Intelligence exists, but the traditional IQ test doesn't show us that. Also doing well in life doesn't rely on your IQ it can also rely on your EQ and being able to deal with people.

So what would show intelligence then if a test designed to show intelligence doesn't show it?

Remember, intelligence as I said, is your ability to do a complex task. It doesn't mean you will actually do it or even get an opportunity to do it. To use an analogy, your IQ is the equivalent to how fast a CPU can perform a calculation. If you don't cool that CPU or give it enough power, it will not perform well. If you don't program that CPU do to a task well (like scheduling tasks) it will not perform well. Someone with an IQ of 140 has the ability to be an electrical engineer, but if they are extremely lazy and/or they didn't get the opportunity, they won't be an electrical engineer and would have to settle for less prestigious profession. Someone with an IQ of 80 though, does not have the ability to be an electrical engineer, thus they have to settle for a less prestigious position, despite how hard they work.

Spouting things like look at our low IQ scores that's why the country is doing so badly is because the average person is dumb.
Firstly actually working on averages isn't easy, secondly the reason why the IQs are low is because the people generally grow up in poor conditions and aren' exposed to things that would help them. That's why all the "failed" countries have low IQ scores, it's not because they are inherently dumb, it's because they are "failed" countries and have made no strides to pick up their people.

The IQ points indicate reality, shooting the messenger doesn't help anyone. South Africa for example has major problems with early childhood nutrition for example. Developed countries have solved these problems, hence why their IQs are much higher.

 

[2023]

Pretty sure it was after std. 8 / grade 10 before, now it's a year earlier.

Schools act:

Compulsory attendance
3. (1) Subject to this Act and any applicable provincial law, every parent must cause every learner for whom he or she is responsible to attend a school from the first school day of the year in which such learner reaches the age of seven years until the last school day of the year in which such learner reaches the age of fifteen years or the ninth grade, whichever occurs first

 

[konfab]

That's the thing, an IQ test isn't objective. Not the traditional ones anyway.

IQ tests 'do not reflect intelligence'

www.telegraph.co.uk

I am just going to post a quote from the paper the article was referencing:

Both the STM and the reasoning component scores correlated significantly with the Cattell Culture Fair score, whereas the verbal component showed a positive subthreshold trend (STM r = 0.52, p < 0.001; reasoning r = 0.34, p < 0.05; verbal r = 0.26, p = 0.07). Numerically, the strongest correlation was generated by averaging the STM and reasoning component scores (STM and reasoning r = 0.65, p < 0.001; STM and verbal r = 0.54, p < 0.001; verbal and reasoning r = 0.377, p < 0.05). When second-order component scores were generated for the pilot participants using the obliquely oriented factor model from the Internet cohort, they also correlated significantly with Cattell Culture Fair score (r = 0.64, p < 0.001). These results suggest that the STM and reasoning components relate more closely than the verbal component to “g” as defined by classic IQ testing.

https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(12)00584-3?_returnURL=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0896627312005843?showall=true
So they are not objective in the words of Professor Doctor Lupus, but were objective enough to be "correlated significantly" with the brain scans that this study (that Professor Doctor Lupus told me was the proof that IQ wasn't objective)that was testing...

Right, now think if it is practical to do brain scans on 10 000 people.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Maybe so, but they do not measure intelligence. Also, plenty thick turds have career success and wealth - ask Julius and Floyd, and innumerable others.

IQ tests measure your ability to form rational arguments i.e. the ability to manipulate a 3D object in your head, understanding IF-then arguments etc. It doesn't measurre whether or not you know facts.

Julius and Floyd in my few has a decent IQ. The problem is that they don't know anything about the world.

IQ is correlating more and more with success, the reason being that our world requires us to abstractly classify objects. 100 years ago manual labour was more in demand.

 

[surface]

Is the white high iq chart posted yet? Asking for a friend.

 

[Yskasmetnstoof]

Government’s new plan to let learners finish school at Grade 9

The Department of Basic Education has unveiled a plan to let learners leave school at Grade 9 with a General Education Certificate.

The plan was unveiled by Minister of Basic Education, Angie Motshekga during her speech at the SADTU National Congress at Nasrec, Johannesburg.

Great idea. But who will steal the money for it?

 

[Yskasmetnstoof]

It's not 12 years if you think about it, after Matric there is college, varsity and whatever afterwards. But yeah 12 years is a long time in a childs life and it doesn't prepare them for life at all.

You can check countries with semi literate populations for what happens without it.

 

[ponder]

Schools act:

At some point things must have changed.