Government’s new plan to let learners finish school at Grade 9

AdrianH

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Back in the 70's and 80's, I knew a number of lads that left school at Std8 and went on to make a sterling career as tradesmen.....
Like this idea..
I doubt those "dropouts" were dumb though. They probably also had a drive to work, earn and succeed unlike the current youth of today that do nothing, want everything for free, and be offended by anything and everything.
 

2023

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At some point things must have changed.

Wouldn't surprise me, lowering the standard is the norm.

Hey, at least if you drop out after grade 9 you'll avoid that compulsory History* of grade 10->12 so there is good in it.


*ANC Approved
 

ponder

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Wouldn't surprise me, lowering the standard is the norm.

Hey, at least if you drop out after grade 9 you'll avoid that compulsory History* of grade 10->12 so there is good in it.


*ANC Approved

I distinctly recall some kids leaving school after std. 8 to go to technical college back in the day, you had to go up to std. 8 before you could quit.
 

rwenzori

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So lets get this straight, an objective test that is constructed statistically to measure intelligence, doesn't measure intelligence.
Yet Professor Doctor Rwenzori has an objective metric to determine that Julius, Floyd and innumerable others are actually thick turds...


o_O:rolleyes:


No - they measure one's ability to do the tests. Which some duffer psycho types claim measure intelligence. Do you really think the concept of intelligence is limited to doing silly little puzzle progression thingies?

Besides, what is 'success'?
 

wbot

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What will they do all day without taxpayer-funded school day care centres?

Drink, steal, burn everything, throw rocks, rape, drugs.... the usual.

What's funny is that Angie Motswhatever wants kids to leave school at 15 so that they won't fail higher grades. That was one of her actual reasons
 

Nanfeishen

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I distinctly recall some kids leaving school after std. 8 to go to technical college back in the day, you had to go up to std. 8 before you could quit.
Yep , I am one of those, left end of Std 9 , had to apply to the Department of Education for my Std 8 Certificate.

School was as boring as hell, and I simply had no interest in any of the subjects other than Geography, history was full of political bull, Maths was impractical in the real world, Science was dull except when we did experiments, and I didnt see the point of Shakespeare, prose, plays and lengthly essays.

Went on to do N3 , got that in Technical Drawing which included Electrical, Mechanical, Building and Structural , along with Applied Mathematics, Plumbing Theory, Fitting and Turning Theory.
From what i recall, the teachers were also experienced in their fields with years of on the job experience, not just academics or basic educators stuck in their mindless teaching post for years on end.

Walked into a Junior Draughtsman position after that, did some alterations on the side on building plans for peoples houses as well, plans were passed easier and quicker in those days as the only qualifaction needed was being a Junior Draughtsman.

Technical Drawing in those days was done on an actual Drawing Board, so one had to be fast, accurate and precise , especially in an engineering firm, no chance of errors in your tolerances.

The one good thing about going to Technical School was nobody looked down on those who were repeating a year or a subject. You werent considered doff or stupid by the other kids there.
We also had guys who came in to do a "block", basically people doing their apprenticeship who did one subject over a 3 month stint.
 

konfab

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No - they measure one's ability to do the tests. Which some duffer psycho types claim measure intelligence. Do you really think the concept of intelligence is limited to doing silly little puzzle progression thingies?
If you consistently fail at doing those silly little puzzle thingies, do you think that person has the capacity to do a highly complex task? And FYI, those puzzle thingies are called the Raven's Progressive metric, and are not really a proper IQ test.

The theory behind IQ is that how you do across disciplines is correlated for most people. This is best shown in academic results for school. If you look at the top academic achievers in school, you will see most of them excel in other, non-academic things like sports and music as well.

Learning how racist and evil Iago was in Othello has no content relevant to doing electrical engineering, yet all universities use your average Matric marks as an initial selection criteria for courses that are more advanced.
http://www.sun.ac.za/english/maties/Documents/Engineering.pdf

Why is that the case? Could it be that they want people who are talented across different domains of knowledge and skill? Or **gasp** they want people with high general intelligence?

Then to get to some practical examples of exceptionally intelligent people. Like John Von Neumann.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abilities

Time and again you see this type of person excel in multiple domains.


Besides, what is 'success'?
tenor.gif
 
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SaiyanZ

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How about setting up proper technical schools? Ones where people who aren't good with their brains but with their hands can learn a skill? Plumbers, electricians etc? Or how about we have schools actually teach things we need in life like how to do your taxes, dealing with work stress, budgeting and and. I mean I'm so glad I learnt how to do logarithims in school that I use everyday in my life...


I remember back like 20 years ago, if you went to a Technical school instead of the usual one, you were just confirming to everyone that you're a dumbass and can't do normal school. So there was a stigma attached to it. Not sure if it's still the same these days.
 

rwenzori

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If you consistently fail at doing those silly little puzzle thingies, do you think that person has the capacity to do a highly complex task? And FYI, those puzzle thingies are called the Raven's Progressive metric, and are not really a proper IQ test.

Oh. Many moons since I sat an IQ test, or studied them. Memory fails. But I did take a look at that Eysenck Penguin book some time back for fun. No true IQ test... Hehe.

Besides, you can train doggies to do complex tasks.

The theory behind IQ is that how you do across disciplines is correlated for most people. This is best shown in academic results for school. If you look at the top academic achievers in school, you will see most of them excel in other, non-academic things like sports and music as well.

That is pure tosh.

How does an IQ test test multiple disciplines? And other types of intelligence?

Why is that the case? Could it be that they want people who are talented across different domains of knowledge and skill? Or **gasp** they want people with high general intelligence?

No doubt, but that is not IQ.

Then to get to some practical examples of exceptionally intelligent people. Like John Von Neumann.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abilities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abilities

Of course there are exceptionally intelligent people. Not sure what that has to do with IQ tests.

Time and again you see this type of person excel in multiple domains.

Just like girls, some do, some don't.

I have no idea what your little .gif was about - can hardly see it.

To me, most of the field "psychology" is primitive and bunk, and just because some practitioners make a little test and decide to wildly claim it measures human intelligence, it does not mean such a claim should be accepted no matter how many human sheep follow that line.
 

Solarion

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We already have the Dumbest population amongst Southern African nations , looks like government looking to go for the continental title.

Keeping the general population and dumb and ignorant as possible is one of the fundamental unwritten rules of any government.
 

Jopie Fourie

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Hope government remembers to change the laws in relation to child labour too. Most of these children will be left unemployable if they do not lower the age of child labour. Best would be to do it once and for all and bring the age down to 4 years old.
 

konfab

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Besides, you can train doggies to do complex tasks.
Not really, a dog will never be able to predict the motion of a planet using a first principle like Newtonian gravity.

How does an IQ test test multiple disciplines? And other types of intelligence?
Because the theory of multiple intelligences is BS. There isn't cooking intelligence or feminist-belly-button-lint-picking intelligence.

As I have repeatedly told you, intelligence, as measured by the IQ test, measures how quickly you can learn a complex task. The evidence for this, is that people we consider to be highly intelligent have good understanding of multiple unrelated fields.

Of course there are exceptionally intelligent people. Not sure what that has to do with IQ tests.
The question is why do we regard them as intelligent? It is because they are able to be highly effective at learning across very different domains of knowledge and skill. Normal computers are not intelligent in this regard as they are only ridiculously effective at solving problems that are set about in a very specific way.

To me, most of the field "psychology" is primitive and bunk, and just because some practitioners make a little test and decide to wildly claim it measures human intelligence, it does not mean such a claim should be accepted no matter how many human sheep follow that line.
Most of psychology is rubbish.
Over the past few years, an international team of almost 200 psychologists has been trying to repeat a set of previously published experiments from its field, to see if it can get the same results. Despite its best efforts, the project, called Many Labs 2, has only succeeded in 14 out of 28 cases. Six years ago, that might have been shocking. Now it comes as expected (if still somewhat disturbing) news.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/psychologys-replication-crisis-real/576223/

IQ is one of the few spots where it is possible to replicate results.
 

konfab

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Hope government remembers to change the laws in relation to child labour too. Most of these children will be left unemployable if they do not lower the age of child labour. Best would be to do it once and for all and bring the age down to 4 years old.
They also need to get rid of minimum wage.
 

konfab

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Keeping the general population and dumb and ignorant as possible is one of the fundamental unwritten rules of any government in charge of a welfare state.
FTFY.

There isn't any advantage of keeping people dumb if they are not dependant on you.
 

konfab

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Yep, that too, because I do not see these kids earning even a minimum wage given their educational standards.
If you look at the median wage in South Africa, it is R3300.
The minimum wage is R3500.

Thus, shock and horror when the minimum wage makes most people legally unemployable.
 

Solarion

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FTFY.

There isn't any advantage of keeping people dumb if they are not dependant on you.

Apart from the fact that dumb people don't ask the uncomfortable questions about their government. Lots of questions about x, y or z but not the pressing questions like: "Just how much bullshit and brainwashing have I really been subjected to?"
 
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