Government must reduce speed limit in urban areas to 30km/h - Urban expert

[C4Cat]

Are they supposed to be on the road or on the pavements and sidewalks meant for them?

I'd use the pavement if it wasn't for all the cars parked on it! Times are changing, aside from people who have to walk, more and more people are choosing to walk and ride bikes, and roads are no longer exclusively for cars, we need to share and make roads safe for everyone. I honestly don't see the problem with slowing down in urban environments.

Does the RTMC publish official statistics or does that not play into their narrative?

Why are you asking me? I don't represent the RTMC. I asked you to back up a claim you made. And you tried to dodge the question but in doing so actually answered it - you have no source, it was just made up by you to suit your own narrative. As I thought.

Not really. Lower speeds mean shorter stopping distances. We are not talking between 30 and 40 but 30 and 60. The higher you go the less overall impact the extra distance has.

That makes no sense. If the difference between 30 and 40 is high, the difference between 30 and 60 is going to be even higher, obviously. The numbers and calculations are all there in the link I posted earlier

Also the major mistake here is assuming that 60km/h means that accidents will occur at 60km/h.

Yes, well if you're only travelling 30 in a 60 zone then what's the problem with lowering the limit to 30 anyway?

 

[C4Cat]

You cant compare Europe's traffic at 30km with our road speed. Not the same.

What do you mean? 30km/h is the same speed whether you're here or in Europe... It's... um...
30 km/h

 

[j4ck455]

“One of the important United Nations road safety solutions is to call for a reduction in speed limits in urban areas,” Wilkins said.

Immensely clever lady, what did the United Nations say about a complete and utter lack of speed limits enforcement by traffic officers?

You can make the urban speed limit whatever you want, but the lack of speed limits enforcement (especially in a third world country where lawlessness is the norm) is the real problem.

 

[Johnatan56]

Between 30 and 40 km/h, the stopping distance increases by 50 percent!

View attachment 1055245
View attachment 1055247

Vehicle Speed and Stopping Distance - Raise the Hammer

www.raisethehammer.org

I'm just going to give you something with a better "view". This is also known as the highway code, it is basically what a car must be able to do as a minimum.

1 MPH = 1.6 KMPH
20 -> 32 (30)
30 -> 48 (50)
40 -> 65 (60)
50 -> 97 (100)
70 -> 112 (120)

This video is from 2016, doing real-world:

Difference in real-world is 2m, breaking is not a linear graph, if it's 9 or 11m, it's not really going to make a difference while the real-world impact of that change would be enormous in terms of time wasted and traffic it would cause, you'd need way more transit available.




And I would also note that none of those were too harsh braking from what I could see, so could probably be even shorter.
That video is 2016, it's getting even shorter now, with better assisted breaking due to EU regulations. South Africa should make ABS mandatory, still find it insane that it's starting to become a more premium feature again in some cars (looking at you Ford and Suzuki budget stuff).

 

[Johnatan56]

What do you mean? 30km/h is the same speed whether you're here or in Europe... It's... um...
30 km/h

EU you do not really drive in most major cities, you use public transit, and it's a lot denser, so you won't really be speeding up in cities to even get to 60kmph in most places if in the actual city.
I very rarely see stop signs, it's always a yield pretty much, I think I know two or three stop signs within a few km from here, and those are because it's an area that has had accidents as intersection with blind corner or something.

 

[deesef]

Government must reduce speed limit in urban areas to 30km/h - Urban expert

The government should drop the speed limit in South Africa’s urban areas to help reduce the large number of pedestrian fatalities.

This is according to Open Streets urban designer Kirsten Wilkins, who recently spoke about pedestrian safety in the country on CapeTalk. The discussion followed the release of government’s Easter traffic statistics.

There were 235 fatalities on South Africa’s roads during the 2021 Easter period, of which around 35% were pedestrians.

This poephole should also calculate the resulting cost to the economy for reducing economically usable time

 

[C4Cat]

This poephole should also calculate the resulting cost to the economy for reducing economically usable time

 

[Swa]

I'd use the pavement if it wasn't for all the cars parked on it! Times are changing, aside from people who have to walk, more and more people are choosing to walk and ride bikes, and roads are no longer exclusively for cars, we need to share and make roads safe for everyone. I honestly don't see the problem with slowing down in urban environments.

I don't know where you're staying but I never see cars on pavements. At mall parking lots when it's very busy yes. I didn't say our roads don't need to be safe for everyone. What I'm saying is that their primary use is for vehicles. Pedestrians are only supposed to use them when crossing them but for some reason people stand in the middle of them or walk next to each other. We have one set of road users who's forgotten their responsibility so shifting it onto the other one will make no difference while both are sharing it.

I also never had a problem with slowing down in urban environments. The issue is what do you deem an urban environment? A city centre is much different than a quiet suburb. Most countries that have implemented reduced limits distinguish between the two.

Why are you asking me? I don't represent the RTMC. I asked you to back up a claim you made. And you tried to dodge the question but in doing so actually answered it - you have no source, it was just made up by you to suit your own narrative. As I thought.

Well exactly. They don't publish it because it would not suit their narrative. But every holiday the increase in road deaths is mainly on the national roads as cities and suburbs don't really see much of an increase in traffic.

That makes no sense. If the difference between 30 and 40 is high, the difference between 30 and 60 is going to be even higher, obviously. The numbers and calculations are all there in the link I posted earlier

And here we see our amazing maths pass rate at work. Just because the difference between 30-60 is larger than 30-40 doesn't mean the relative increase is as well. The higher you go the less the increase becomes fractionally relative to the increase. And that brings us to...

Yes, well if you're only travelling 30 in a 60 zone then what's the problem with lowering the limit to 30 anyway?

Who said you need to travel 30 in a 60 zone? You are making the same mistake of assuming that all accidents when driving 60km/h means accidents occurring at 60km/h. It's disingenuous to compare survival rates without also mentioning most accidents do not occur at the travel speed, why serious accidents are much less likely to occur in urban settings. But if I'm going 120km/h on a highway and you jump in front of me I'm much less likely to be going below 60km/h by the time I hit you.

 

[Swa]

Funny that's exactly the reaction some people had at the start of Covid when they said lives must be saved no matter the cost. Now we're sitting with 100k excess deaths, 2x what the virus killed if you even believe the official numbers. While most of our regulations had fokol impact on stopping the spread the virus in any case. Yes saving lives had a great effect on achieving that goal.

No matter what people think the impact on the economy should always be an important consideration.

 

[grok]

Now if only you would adopt their standards in good governance, education, politics & ethics.....

This.

 

[Magnum]

You can drop it down to 10kph, wont make an ounce of difference.
Rather get the driver's that have no clue on the road, off the road.

What road?

 

[_TrXtR_]

Actually.... if we put enforcement onto the public that would be cool.
We take videos we send them to jail for reckless driving.

 

[Gazg]

What road?

 

[C4Cat]

Funny that's exactly the reaction some people had at the start of Covid when they said lives must be saved no matter the cost. Now we're sitting with 100k excess deaths, 2x what the virus killed if you even believe the official numbers. While most of our regulations had fokol impact on stopping the spread the virus in any case. Yes saving lives had a great effect on achieving that goal.

No matter what people think the impact on the economy should always be an important consideration.

We already have a thread for covidiots, don't bring it here.

 

[pinball wizard]

Typical road cyclist who thinks the road is built for them.

You need to take some medication if that's the leap of logic you made there sunshine.

 

[AstroTurf]

If they were serious about pedestrian safety they would be putting a speed bump at every street corner, or every 400 meters if it's a long road without any corners but that would cost more than just changing some wording on a bit of paper...

 

[Swa]

We already have a thread for covidiots, don't bring it here.

Exactly.

 

[Ockie]

Erm no. It is the pedestrians that should get a bit of common sense and learn to look right, then left, then right again before walking over a street. So frankly, this "expert" can fck off.

 

[pinball wizard]

If a road isn't a dual carriageway (blue overhead boards) then lane selection is up to drivers.

So, the keep left rule no longer applies in your mind?

 

[Geoff.D]

We can always revert to a traffic marshall walking in front of all vehicles, blowing a trumpet and waving a flag .......