Government to spend R25m for Caster Semenya's defence

Craig_

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Somebody seems very invested in this, but that same somebody has yet to quote where her testosterone levels are.
 

TysonRoux

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Somebody seems very invested in this, but that same somebody has yet to quote where her testosterone levels are.

He won't be able to offer any reliable source for that information, because those that do have it would not want to expose themselves to the obvious litigation that would follow.


https://www.outsideonline.com/2198906/caster-semenya-debate
This meteoric improvement (and, most likely, Caster’s distinctly muscled physique) then prompted the IAAF to request that Semenya undergo a sex-verification test, which allegedly revealed that she had three times the amount testosterone typically expected in female athletes. (In a massive instance of indiscretion by the IAAF, news about the test broke while the world championships were still in progress.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/8219937.stm
Tests have revealed Caster Semenya's testosterone level to be three times higher than those normally expected in a female sample, BBC Sport understands.
 
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Craig_

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Allegedly, according to, never confirmed. Until it's confirmed it's just rumour mongering.

And until a reliable source confirms it doesn't really matter who says what, she is a she.
 

marine1

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Top-ranked bridge player suspended for doping on synthetic testosterone, female fertility drug

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/top-...McLqKLBr1NLtxD2UOMJ5CpeyLnwElWOHmno4XW9R7qPRI




As I was saying:

The world’s top-ranked bridge player has been suspended for at least a year by the World Bridge Federation after he tested positive for two banned substances.
The federation announced Friday a sample provided by Geir Helgemo, 49, at the World Bridge Series in September 2018 tested positive for synthetic testosterone and clomifene – a female fertility drug.

“As a consequence of the laboratory analysis, an anti-doping charge was brought against the player,” the federation said in a statement. “He accepted that he had committed the violation and accepted a provisional suspended pending consideration by the Anti-Doping Panel.”
 

Emjay

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He won't be able to offer any reliable source for that information, because those that do have it would not want to expose themselves to the obvious litigation that would follow.


https://www.outsideonline.com/2198906/caster-semenya-debate
This meteoric improvement (and, most likely, Caster’s distinctly muscled physique) then prompted the IAAF to request that Semenya undergo a sex-verification test, which allegedly revealed that she had three times the amount testosterone typically expected in female athletes. (In a massive instance of indiscretion by the IAAF, news about the test broke while the world championships were still in progress.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/8219937.stm
Tests have revealed Caster Semenya's testosterone level to be three times higher than those normally expected in a female sample, BBC Sport understands.

That is because she is intersex and has more MALE physiology. She has internal testes and female presenting sexual organs. Are you guys really still debating this?
 

Cray

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That is because she is intersex and has more MALE physiology. She has internal testes and female presenting sexual organs. Are you guys really still debating this?
The problem is that there has been no official statement from Caster on that, it's her personal medical information and you repeating unnamed sources and hearsay as incontrovertible facts is a massive problem. How would you like you personal medical information splashed all over the media?
 

Emjay

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The problem is that there has been no official statement from Caster on that, it's her personal medical information and you repeating unnamed sources and hearsay as incontrovertible facts is a massive problem. How would you like you personal medical information splashed all over the media?

And do you think she will ever say anything about it? It will confirm what everyone is saying, and confirm her as a cheat.
 

Cray

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And do you think she will ever say anything about it? It will confirm what everyone is saying, and confirm her as a cheat.
Her results are between her and the IAAF, her medical particulars have got f*** all to with anyone else... But yeah, keep repeating unconfirmed medical information about her that she clearly doesn't want the public to know about (even assuming it's true), am sure violating someones privacy is all well and good so long as are trying to win an internet squabble..:rolleyes:
 

Emjay

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Her results are between her and the IAAF, her medical particulars have got f*** all to with anyone else... But yeah, keep repeating unconfirmed medical information about her that she clearly doesn't want the public to know about (even assuming it's true), am sure violating someones privacy is all well and good so long as are trying to win an internet squabble..:rolleyes:

No. Her results actually are between her and her co-competitors. She has a right to privacy, but the women competing against her have the right to fair competition don't you think?

This is not a squabble. She is intersex. Her high testosterone levels are not possible for a female.
 

Cray

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No. Her results actually are between her and her co-competitors. She has a right to privacy, but the women competing against her have the right to fair competition don't you think?
I do agree that competition should be fair but competitors are not responsible for ensuring fair play in the events they compete in, they can and should report cheating if they see it but enforcing it has bugger all to do with them...

Enforcing the laws and ensuring fair play is the responsibility of the administrators and officials, competitors have got zero authority to enforce laws that they feel may have been broken - this is why rugby matches have referees, competitors cannot be unbiased in enforcing laws regarding competitors.
 

lived666

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regardless if our heshe is a he or a she, I would be completely mind ****ed if I had the whole world discussing my genitalia short comings. :(
 

Emjay

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I do agree that competition should be fair but competitors are not responsible for ensuring fair play in the events they compete in, they can and should report cheating if they see it but enforcing it has bugger all to do with them...

Enforcing the laws and ensuring fair play is the responsibility of the administrators and officials, competitors have got zero authority to enforce laws that they feel may have been broken - this is why rugby matches have referees, competitors cannot be unbiased in enforcing laws regarding competitors.

And what happens if there is zero will to enforce what is fair because of political correctness? We should not even be having this discussion because it is very blatant what is going on here. These athletes are also public figures and are therefore open to public scrutiny.

It's sad, no doubt, because Caster is a national icon and hero. But she is that because of the wrong reasons.
 

HBee

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So the IAAF are in possession of test results that show that Caster has excessive amounts of testosterone in her body that gives her an unfair advantage against women. Nothing else should matter unless she can prove the tests wrong.

Why are some people so hell bent on ensuring she destroys competitive sport for everyone?
 

Cray

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And what happens if there is zero will to enforce what is fair because of political correctness?

Then it's up to the athletes to draw attention to it and to make that change.. Considering Caster is currently the one suing the IAAF what makes you that there is no will to enforce what is fair?

We should not even be having this discussion because it is very blatant what is going on here. These athletes are also public figures and are therefore open to public scrutiny.
No we shouldn't be discussing Caster's private medical history, that should be between people qualified to make the correct determination. And no, just because you are a public figure doesn't mean people have the right to your private medical records, that is something that most privacy legislation here and abroad states as well.
 

Emjay

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Then it's up to the athletes to draw attention to it and to make that change.. Considering Caster is currently the one suing the IAAF what makes you that there is no will to enforce what is fair?

No we shouldn't be discussing Caster's private medical history, that should be between people qualified to make the correct determination. And no, just because you are a public figure doesn't mean people have the right to your private medical records, that is something that most privacy legislation here and abroad states as well.

Then she should release her medical records to stop all the speculation. And she should not be competing until this is settled. Simple.

She is a cheater in the eyes of many. Stop telling people to reject what their own eyes are telling them and policing their thoughts.
 

C4Cat

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So the IAAF are in possession of test results that show that Caster has excessive amounts of testosterone in her body that gives her an unfair advantage against women. Nothing else should matter unless she can prove the tests wrong.

Why are some people so hell bent on ensuring she destroys competitive sport for everyone?
This hasn't been proven at all. And there are many factors which influence performance between females, other than testosterone so why pick just that one?

Last year the IAAF released a key study, which found that female athletes with higher levels of testosterone had an advantage in five events, the 400m, 400m hurdles, 800m, hammer throw, and pole vault. And that study, which underpins these new regulations, now looks deeply flawed. Andrew Gelman, Higgins professor of statistics at Columbia University, described the analysis as “such a mess that I can’t really figure out what data they are working with, what exactly they are doing, or the connection between some of their analyses and their scientific goals”.

Gelman is a rare voice in all this, one without any emotional investment, or even an interest in the sport. His only concern is the work. And he found it lacking. The IAAF says that this was only one paper, and that its case is bolstered by a body of confidential data. But still, after 15 years of study, its very best public evidence was debunked within weeks of its release. If after a decade of trying the IAAF still can’t prove it is right that DSD athletes shouldn’t be allowed to compete unless they lower their testosterone, then all these hard questions fade in to one easy, unavoidable, answer. The IAAF has got it wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...r-semenya-iaaf-science-athletics-testosterone
 
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