Hackintosh Haswell vs Broadwell: Worth the wait? And other questions

[PostmanPot]

Hi all

I'm wanting to upgrade my gaming Windows PC to a gaming Hackintosh. Is it worth it now with Haswell soon to be replaced by Broadwell?

Does Broadwell offer a substantial performance boost and/or other features over Haswell?

How long would it take for Apple to adopt Broadwell, and then become Hackintoshable?

Do Gigabyte motherboards still offer an advantage? I like the Asus Z97M-Plus, Intel LAN and Realtek audio (but will use a USB DAC).

The Nvidia GTX 760 looks like a good graphics card to go for?

Is the BitFenix Prodigy still one of the better cases?

Are there any favourite CPU coolers for low/no noise?

I'm able to get some of the components i.e. Ivybridge from USA soon.

Thanks.

 

[Joker]

Does Broadwell offer a substantial performance boost and/or other features over Ivybridge?

Not so much performance, Broadwell is more about integrated graphics and power savings etc (good for mobile devices)

How long would it take for Apple to adopt Broadwell, and then become Hackintoshable?

Well, the next Macbooks will definitely run Broadwell which should be released later this quarter. But as far as I know Hackintosh compatibility is more reliant on your motherboard chipset than cpu architecture. Rather look for proven compatible hardware: http://www.hackintosh.com/#hackintosh_compatible

The Nvidia GTX 760 looks like a good graphics card to go for?

Decent card but it's last generation now, having been replaced by the 960.

Is the BitFenix Prodigy still one of the better cases?

Are there any favourite CPU coolers for low/no noise?

Sock intel fans are very quiet nowadays, the majority of your PC noise will come from your system fans, graphics card and power supply. Otherwise just get any fan rated as 'silent' or 'quiet', or if you really want http://www.evetech.co.za/PC-Hardware/noctua-nh-u12s-ultra-quiet-cpu-cooler-154.aspx

Rather aim for a quiet case which should come with quieter system fans and noise absorbing foam - that should make your whole computer quiet. I have and highly recommend this Fracal Design chassis: http://www.wootware.co.za/fractal-design-fd-ca-def-r4-bl-r4-black-pearl-atx-desktop-chassis.html (I think there is a smaller version of it too)

Also as an aside, if you're into gaming be sure to rather dual boot your PC with Hackintosh/Windows. Sure there are loads of OSX games on steam now, but very few of the AAA's make it..

 

[koffiejunkie]

Is it worth it now with Ivybridge soon to be replaced by Broadwell?

Ivybridge was replaced by Haswell a year and a half ago... Clever comments aside, the only Broadwell chips released so far are low power dual-core chips in the 15-28W range. I don't know if the desktop CPUs have been announced yet.

Does Broadwell offer a substantial performance boost and/or other features over Ivybridge?

Even once the desktop chips are out, the improvements from one generation to the next have been modest. To give you an idea, my brand spanking new Haswell (refresh) i7 desktop CPU is about 35% faster in general CPU benchmarks than my now 3+ year old Sandybridge high-end i7 mobile CPU (both quad core).

Put another way, looking at cpubenchmark.net's results:

Core         | Chip  | Score |     %
====================================
Sandybridge  | 2700K |  8908 |	
Ivybridge    | 3770K |  9383 |  5.33
Haswell      | 4770K |  9894 |  5.45
Broadwell    | 5770K |     ? |     ?

I wouldn't expect more than about a 5% increase over Haswell. Of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. Every CPU comes with new instruction sets that speeds up something in particular. It's up to you to find out what that is and figure out if it will affect your use case.

Is the BitFenix Prodigy still one of the better cases?

I can't speak for BitFenix but every time I open my Lian-Li case to add/change something inside, I am super impressed all over. Expensive, but damn, they're done well!

 

[HApyM3al]

Hi there Postman,

not sure what games want to play on the hackintosh but anyway.

firstly look at http://www.tonymacx86.com/ - they recommend you hardware and can provide the "drivers" kext files.

gigabyte has always been better hardware for hackintosh because most of hardware is already supported. 760 and 960 has same architecture I believe, but 960 is more power efficient. Cooling is very depended on fans and kind of case and environment it is in. best cooler can recommend myself is a hyper212X and make sure fan curve is done right. cooling is good and fans are decent.

I would recommend a SSD and as well just getting an actual mac. Mac mini with SSD and 16GB ram is pretty solid. I did the same where hackintosh but it is very picky and when goes wrong you sit with problem for hours. now im with a macbook pro. Best choice ever made - fast; mobile; easy to work with and I can play minecraft.

yes sure hackintosh is cheaper. but hassle with it when goes wrong is annoying.

 

[PostmanPot]

Thanks all.

Decent card but it's last generation now, having been replaced by the 960.

GTX 760 is recommended by www.tonymacx86.com, would prefer something lower on power but with enough grunt for occasional gaming. Looking at i5/i74xxxS lower voltage CPUs.

Sock intel fans are very quiet nowadays, the majority of your PC noise will come from your system fans, graphics card and power supply. Otherwise just get any fan rated as 'silent' or 'quiet', or if you really want http://www.evetech.co.za/PC-Hardware/noctua-nh-u12s-ultra-quiet-cpu-cooler-154.aspx

True, they are impressively quiet. Silent would be the best. That cooler looks quite big, I'd imagine I need a small sized cooler to fit inside the smaller mATX chassis I have in mind.

Rather aim for a quiet case which should come with quieter system fans and noise absorbing foam - that should make your whole computer quiet. I have and highly recommend this Fracal Design chassis: http://www.wootware.co.za/fractal-design-fd-ca-def-r4-bl-r4-black-pearl-atx-desktop-chassis.html (I think there is a smaller version of it too)

Might consider larger 'silent' cases, quite nice for accessibility. I'm aiming to keep it as compact as possible though.

Also as an aside, if you're into gaming be sure to rather dual boot your PC with Hackintosh/Windows. Sure there are loads of OSX games on steam now, but very few of the AAA's make it..

Definitely will be.

Ivybridge was replaced by Haswell a year and a half ago...

Whoops, I meant Haswell. OP and title updated.

Clever comments aside, the only Broadwell chips released so far are low power dual-core chips in the 15-28W range. I don't know if the desktop CPUs have been announced yet.

Even once the desktop chips are out, the improvements from one generation to the next have been modest. To give you an idea, my brand spanking new Haswell (refresh) i7 desktop CPU is about 35% faster in general CPU benchmarks than my now 3+ year old Sandybridge high-end i7 mobile CPU (both quad core).

Put another way, looking at cpubenchmark.net's results:

Core         | Chip  | Score |     %
====================================
Sandybridge  | 2700K |  8908 |	
Ivybridge    | 3770K |  9383 |  5.33
Haswell      | 4770K |  9894 |  5.45
Broadwell    | 5770K |     ? |     ?

I wouldn't expect more than about a 5% increase over Haswell. Of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. Every CPU comes with new instruction sets that speeds up something in particular. It's up to you to find out what that is and figure out if it will affect your use case.

I'm wondering if Broadwell will be more significant than Sandy/Ivy/Haswell. It seems like it won't. Your figures put things into perspective nicely, but as you say there are different instructions etc.

But presuming Broadwell won't be all that much better makes me want to get this sooner.

The integrated graphics side seems to have been progressing nicely, if Broadwell is significantly better than Haswell, I might just hold out.

I can't speak for BitFenix but every time I open my Lian-Li case to add/change something inside, I am super impressed all over. Expensive, but damn, they're done well!

I must take a look at what they offer, always wanted a Lian-Li.

Hi there Postman,

not sure what games want to play on the hackintosh but anyway.

firstly look at http://www.tonymacx86.com/ - they recommend you hardware and can provide the "drivers" kext files.

gigabyte has always been better hardware for hackintosh because most of hardware is already supported. 760 and 960 has same architecture I believe, but 960 is more power efficient. Cooling is very depended on fans and kind of case and environment it is in. best cooler can recommend myself is a hyper212X and make sure fan curve is done right. cooling is good and fans are decent.

Have read a lot of www.tonymacx86.com guides and builds. Steam and SC2. Gigabyte is popular there. I have the Gigabyte GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 mobo in mind. But it has Killer NIX which people moan about?

I would recommend a SSD and as well just getting an actual mac. Mac mini with SSD and 16GB ram is pretty solid. I did the same where hackintosh but it is very picky and when goes wrong you sit with problem for hours. now im with a macbook pro. Best choice ever made - fast; mobile; easy to work with and I can play minecraft.

yes sure hackintosh is cheaper. but hassle with it when goes wrong is annoying.

Definitely agree, I do have a rMBP and it's so good that I want a Hackintosh.

 

[HApyM3al]

rMBP as well late 2013 256gb. got a windows media server.

interesting that want a hackintosh as well. well its cheaper than paying 27k lols.

SSD is a must according to me.
checked the cooler = perfect but make sure fits in the case and ram is low enough to fit underneath.
Killer nic ive heard is a problem yeah, say has latency issues. when i built my hackintosh was on a ASUS z68pro and worked fine.
think reason why 960 isnt recommend is maybe kext still not available? not sure on this. i checked now and all of them is on 760 haha.

just quickly was on tonymac and saw mobos etc. that asus board looks fine. I have never had issues with asus boards and personally always recommended over any other board.

let me know how it goes as well. curious to see setup and parts ordered. and as well how setup went

 

[PostmanPot]

rMBP as well late 2013 256gb. got a windows media server.

interesting that want a hackintosh as well. well its cheaper than paying 27k lols.

SSD is a must according to me.
checked the cooler = perfect but make sure fits in the case and ram is low enough to fit underneath.
Killer nic ive heard is a problem yeah, say has latency issues. when i built my hackintosh was on a ASUS z68pro and worked fine.
think reason why 960 isnt recommend is maybe kext still not available? not sure on this. i checked now and all of them is on 760 haha.

Nice, got the same in 512GB. Such a workhorse. Interested in the performance and expansion/connectivity of a Hackintosh. Great being able to have 6+ SATA ports, for example. Not into the iMac much due to the limitation but I understand the appeal. Will be using a FHD Dell Ultrasharp 24" 16:10.

Definitely SSD, can't go back. Samsung Evo/Pro seem to be popular.

I'm going to look into passive coolers too.

Might be worth holding out to find out which 9xx cards are well supported.

just quickly was on tonymac and saw mobos etc. that asus board looks fine. I have never had issues with asus boards and personally always recommended over any other board.

Perfect, the Gigabyte has a red LEDish strip, bit gimmicky for me.

let me know how it goes as well. curious to see setup and parts ordered. and as well how setup went

Will do!

 

[koffiejunkie]

would prefer something lower on power but with enough grunt for occasional gaming. Looking at i5/i74xxxS lower voltage CPUs.

That's what I have - i7 4790S. Current status:

Core 0:         +30.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 1:         +28.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 2:         +28.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 3:         +29.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)

For interest's sake, the difference between the 4790 and 4790S is 400MHz, but when you work out the boost modes, that shrinks to 133MHz at best

Whoops, I meant Haswell. OP and title updated.

I assumed as much, hence my smarty pants comments

The integrated graphics side seems to have been progressing nicely, if Broadwell is significantly better than Haswell, I might just hold out.

This is meant to be a bigger step forward than before. I guess it's at least in part because of the QHD displays that are becoming more commonplace.

I must take a look at what they offer, always wanted a Lian-Li.

Since you mentioned mATX, this is what I have. It's one of only a handful of decent mATX cases I could find at the time that will take one or more 5.25" drives *and* 6x 2.5" drives. It's built very well, very solid - everything has that quality feel to it.

The pictures are a bit meh, google images gives you a better idea. The only thing I would caution is that it's every so slightly too narrow for many of the 120mm tower fans. I got the Coolermaster 212 EVO and it was a bout 3mm too high for the case to close. So I had to settle for the 90mm version which is a fair bit more audible. Before that I had a Geminii M4[/quote] which was absolutely quiet but can be pain in the but to install (it sits just short flush agains two sides of the case).

Definitely agree, I do have a rMBP and it's so good that I want a Hackintosh.

This bug has bit me too

 

[HApyM3al]

@postman, agree with everything

and lets be honest do you ever use the thunderbolt? with new usb coming out i think thunderbolt might take a hit. imac to me is useless.

samsung evo is what ive been looking at for work laptop.

i see the 970 and 980 is in list on tonymac but the 960 isnt so might be in pipeline. check forums, i trust someone has more info.

asus has gold chipset cooler haha. take that gigabyte

 

[PostmanPot]

That's what I have - i7 4790S. Current status:

Core 0:         +30.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 1:         +28.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 2:         +28.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
Core 3:         +29.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)

For interest's sake, the difference between the 4790 and 4790S is 400MHz, but when you work out the boost modes, that shrinks to 133MHz at best

Looks good, is this with the stock cooler? I'm looking at the Noctua NH-L9I Low Profile. 5 star rating should mean something!

This is meant to be a bigger step forward than before. I guess it's at least in part because of the QHD displays that are becoming more commonplace.

The graphics side is irking me a bit. Broadwell being better, GTX 760 not being Maxwell, as well as less support for Maxwell-based cards. Ultimately CPU graphics shouldn't really matter as I'll likely use a card always.

Since you mentioned mATX, this is what I have. It's one of only a handful of decent mATX cases I could find at the time that will take one or more 5.25" drives *and* 6x 2.5" drives. It's built very well, very solid - everything has that quality feel to it.

The pictures are a bit meh, google images gives you a better idea. The only thing I would caution is that it's every so slightly too narrow for many of the 120mm tower fans. I got the Coolermaster 212 EVO and it was a bout 3mm too high for the case to close. So I had to settle for the 90mm version which is a fair bit more audible. Before that I had a Geminii M4 which was absolutely quiet but can be pain in the but to install (it sits just short flush agains two sides of the case).

Thanks, I've researched the mATX Lian-Li cases and narrowed it down to two of their 'cubes'. I would have liked something with no ODD but the fact that these are on the right suits me. The power button and front I/O ports need to be on the side, too.

First choice is the Lian-Li PC-V355 for being less open and having a cleaner ODD bay. Second choice is the Lian-Li PC-V353 for its right side I/O ports but it's very open.

The problem is that the BitFenix Phenom ticks all the boxes - right I/O and no ODD. Clean too. I'm worried though that it's more white than silver, and I have no doubt that Lian-Li is better quality and more well thought out.

If space provides, there's the larger http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-v360/]Lian-Li PC-V360.

This bug has bit me too

So glad to have been bitten after 95% of life with Windows only.

@postman, agree with everything

and lets be honest do you ever use the thunderbolt? with new usb coming out i think thunderbolt might take a hit. imac to me is useless.

samsung evo is what ive been looking at for work laptop.

i see the 970 and 980 is in list on tonymac but the 960 isnt so might be in pipeline. check forums, i trust someone has more info.

asus has gold chipset cooler haha. take that gigabyte

Nope, never use Thunderbolt. Leaning towards the 256GB 850 Pro, here's a good Evo vs Pro comparison - http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Samsung-850-Pro-256GB-vs-Samsung-840-Evo-250GB/2385vs1594.

Hehe, the Asus does have a cleaner look, it's also a fair bit cheaper than the Gigabyte. Also prefer Asus' splash screens.

 

[koffiejunkie]

Looks good, is this with the stock cooler?

No, it's the 90mm version of the Coolermaster EVO I mentioned above. I don't like the design of the Intel coolers with the open fan blades - my case is too densely packed and there are cables all over the place.

I'm looking at the Noctua NH-L9I Low Profile. 5 star rating should mean something!

Noctua has a good reputation. I looked at their 120mm fans too but they too are just a little bit too tall.

 

[PostmanPot]

Mac USB DAC/headphone amp - Audioengine D1 vs Asus Essence One vs ?

 

[HApyM3al]

Mac USB DAC/headphone amp - Audioengine D1 vs Asus Essence One vs ?

I had the asus xonar st (PCIE card) and didnt work on mac. Had to use on board. I think forums said the creative ones worked. not 100% sure though.

I dont have good experience for feedback thought. A friend recommended below:

http://schiit.com/products/loki

I am personally using a AV receiver with optical.

 

[PostmanPot]

I had the asus xonar st (PCIE card) and didnt work on mac. Had to use on board. I think forums said the creative ones worked. not 100% sure though.

I dont have good experience for feedback thought. A friend recommended below:

http://schiit.com/products/loki

I am personally using a AV receiver with optical.

Will see what they have to offer for Mac. Needs headphone amp and 6.35mm (quarter inch) headphone jack.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Just popping in to add that if you were on the fence, build now with Haswell or wait for the Skylake launch, wait another three months for drivers and kexts and whatnot to be hacked into a workable state and hope that the new DMI interface doesn't break everything that works now. Broadwell-U should be a great choice for whenever the new Macbooks come out, but Broadwell for the desktop with socketed chips was cancelled by Intel last year.

 

[jansdejager]

You can pump out a lot more power if you have a compatible sdst for the chipset, otherwise you are basically using boilerplate one-size-fits-all. I am still on Sandy Bridge for example, but couldn't get the Sandy Bridge sdst to work for me. Impossible to know until tested further which CPU's are the best fit, and Apple uses different product models than are widely available for desktop market. Only time will tell.

 

[Polymathic]

Broadwell is not out yet because of issues with manufacturing, Intels 6 gen processor skylake will launch this year also and will feature a 10 to 16% increase in power over Broadwell

 

[Maverick Jester]

PP- did you ever end up performing this upgrade?

 

[PostmanPot]

PP- did you ever end up performing this upgrade?

Not as yet, but it's in the pipes. I cut my opportunity to purchase from the States a bit fine.

 

[Maverick Jester]

Not as yet, but it's in the pipes. I cut my opportunity to purchase from the States a bit fine.

Did you end up purchasing anything?