HELP! What are our legal rights as tenants?

[Frankie]

I can post a PDF of one of my lease agreements, but don't see a way of posting this here - only pictures.

 

[Shake&Bake]

I can post a PDF of one of my lease agreements, but don't see a way of posting this here - only pictures.

Perhaps PM rpm or ic - perphaps one of the mods can too.
Then e-mail it to them and and it can be added as an attachment in your post.

 

[Frankie]

Perhaps PM rpm or ic - perphaps one of the mods can too.
Then e-mail it to them and and it can be added as an attachment in your post.

Sent a PM to rpm.

Here's the page that covers termination etc.

It appears that the OP selected the "Fixed lease period, thereafter termination by notice".

And it states the time of day the premises must be vacated on the last day of the lease which would be the last day of the notice period.

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/8803/size/big/cat/500

You might be able to download the image and zoom in a little more.

 

[Frankie]

Here's what it says about the deposit - quite different to what some are suggesting here.

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/8804/size/big/cat/500

 

[.Froot.]

1) Promises are only valid if it is on paper.
2) The contract expired so you have no legal connection to the property, ie no debts to the landlord.
3) Landlord is trying to screw you into the contract.

Hey everyone....

PLEASE ADVISE!!!

So to cut a long story (a little shorter) We have been renting a property for 3 years - with a few things that were promised to us in the begining that we never got but were able to live without. Our existing agreement expires 31 Jan '08 and a few months back I requested a renewal for a further 1 year. This was all done via email and fax as we rent directly from the owner who has since moved to the U.K and is never available. Anyway we were given the new contract and once hubby and I had read through it and had a think bout things we have changed our minds as we are not prepared/able to pay the increase that is due. We let the owner know on Friday that we are no longer renewing the contract (nothing has been signed yet for the new period)

The owner has not accepted this and is seeking legal advice...

What are my rights? The contract states that early termination must be done with a 4 month notice period - however the new contract has not been signed as we do not accept it - but have given 1 month's notice!

Now what?

 

[guest2013-1]

This is not how the standard lease agreements work - if you terminate before the end of the lease period it would state the notice period and also that you may be liable for longer if they cannot find a tenant ASAP, and it's not a case of being out the premises on the last day of the lease period because the standard contracts automatically roll-over to a short term lease agreement with most of the conditions still binding.

Well there's a few contracts that are deemed "standard" floating around really. I should've worded it better.

Point is:

If she wanted to terminate the contract, 4 months notice had to be given
Because the contract expires, they don't need to give notice (as per the clause stating they need to vacate the premises)

That's why I said. The landlord was being a dumbass by not providing them with the lease renewal 5 months ago. If he knew the contract expires end of this month he can't expect them to stay on or give him proper notice if he didn't do his part. By just assuming they'll renew the lease he shot himself in the foot. Because legally, according to the contract he made them sign, they can vacate the premises at the end of the term of the contract without having to sign a renewal lease or give him 4 months notice.

It's in his contract. 4 months notice or vacate the premises the last day of the month when it expires.

Maybe I can throw another example at folk here.

You bought a house. You want to settle the house early. You need to give the bank 3 months notice that you're going to settle the house early otherwise you incur additional costs. Same goes for some personal loans and car loans.

However, if you run the term of the loan, you don't incur additional costs and they can't make you give them 3 months notice the month before or during your last payment is being made.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Acid - I get what you're saying and I'm also leaning towards that train of thought.

My only gripe/hiccup may be that, there is something else in the contract which goes against the simple philosophy of "out by 11:30am on termination/expiry of lease".

That's why;
a) Oogie should take that contract along to a lawyer or to a Housing Tirbunal
b) Scan and put the contract up here or somewhere else for scrutiny, so that we can assess what all the implications are. (Private details ommitted of course)

 

[Frankie]

Well there's a few contracts that are deemed "standard" floating around really. I should've worded it better.

Point is:

If she wanted to terminate the contract, 4 months notice had to be given
Because the contract expires, they don't need to give notice (as per the clause stating they need to vacate the premises)

That's why I said. The landlord was being a dumbass by not providing them with the lease renewal 5 months ago. If he knew the contract expires end of this month he can't expect them to stay on or give him proper notice if he didn't do his part. By just assuming they'll renew the lease he shot himself in the foot. Because legally, according to the contract he made them sign, they can vacate the premises at the end of the term of the contract without having to sign a renewal lease or give him 4 months notice.

It's in his contract. 4 months notice or vacate the premises the last day of the month when it expires.

Maybe I can throw another example at folk here.

You bought a house. You want to settle the house early. You need to give the bank 3 months notice that you're going to settle the house early otherwise you incur additional costs. Same goes for some personal loans and car loans.

However, if you run the term of the loan, you don't incur additional costs and they can't make you give them 3 months notice the month before or during your last payment is being made.

This may be so with some home loans, but I have a bond with ABSA and paid it off well in advance of the term, and there was no penalty payment at all - I can post a statement from this account.

 

[supersunbird]

Well there's a few contracts that are deemed "standard" floating around really. I should've worded it better.

Point is:

If she wanted to terminate the contract, 4 months notice had to be given
Because the contract expires, they don't need to give notice (as per the clause stating they need to vacate the premises)

That's why I said. The landlord was being a dumbass by not providing them with the lease renewal 5 months ago. If he knew the contract expires end of this month he can't expect them to stay on or give him proper notice if he didn't do his part. By just assuming they'll renew the lease he shot himself in the foot. Because legally, according to the contract he made them sign, they can vacate the premises at the end of the term of the contract without having to sign a renewal lease or give him 4 months notice.

It's in his contract. 4 months notice or vacate the premises the last day of the month when it expires.

Maybe I can throw another example at folk here.

You bought a house. You want to settle the house early. You need to give the bank 3 months notice that you're going to settle the house early otherwise you incur additional costs. Same goes for some personal loans and car loans.

However, if you run the term of the loan, you don't incur additional costs and they can't make you give them 3 months notice the month before or during your last payment is being made.

Thats makes sense. The contract expires naturally, no need for notice to be given because they are not leaving before the contract expires.

 

[Frankie]

Thats makes sense. The contract expires naturally, no need for notice to be given because they are not leaving before the contract expires.

Unless the contract was drawn up on a "Fixed lease period, thereafter termination by notice" basis.

 

[Dolby]

I haven't read all of this thread - but what percentage was the increase?

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

Also be very careful about admitting liability for rates and taxes. I don't know about anywhere else in the country, but in Jozi the owner and not the tenant is responsible to the city for these. The responsibility of the tenant is only for electricity and water.
I'm part of a property syndicate and this is true on all of our properties.
On all of our leases, if either party does not renew/cancel prior to the expiry of the lease, the agreement automatically reverts to a month to month basis. According to our legal advice at the time, this had to be specifically stated in the contract or we, as lessors, would be taking a hit if anything went wrong.

 

[Oogie]

Hi just a quick one, im tryin to do this on my phone... Hope it works. Anyway i am not sure how to go bout any of this goin to the estate agent this am to speak to some1 their... And get our deposit on new place back. It was fixed 2 year contract that expires end this month. I dont how to post the lease agreement but maybe if someone can help me they could pm an email ad and il email it this evening when im home. It is so difficult cos he so far away and not willing to discuss, just wants lawyer involved. Its only a standard 10% annual increase and couple of other things we not satisfied with for all that we can get a much better place... And thru an agency... We have had endless issues with plumbing, stove, geyser etc and its always a pain to get hold of him. We have no contact numbers for anyone in SA and although the uk time dif is minimal its always impossible but thats another thread i guess Lol x

 

[koeks]

however on the next page it states that we must be off the premises by 11:30am on the date that the lease expires.

I also see that the deposit was not in an interest bearing account - *****. Already put down a deposit on the new place!

Just move out and tell him to give you your deposit back. You will fight this in court if push comes to shove... they like scaring people...

 

[Dolby]

And an agent is not much better - depending who you choose

Word of warning : DON'T do Just Letting. Just do a search on here to see how many people battled to get their deposits back. Also check the complaints at www.hellopeter.com.

I used to rent my place through them and they're just as bad to both tenant/landlord.

 

[Frankie]

Just move out and tell him to give you your deposit back. You will fight this in court if push comes to shove... they like scaring people...

One problem with this advice is that it can get the OP black listed.

 

[Frankie]

And an agent is not much better - depending who you choose

Word of warning : DON'T do Just Letting. Just do a search on here to see how many people battled to get their deposits back. Also check the complaints at www.hellopeter.com.

I used to rent my place through them and they're just as bad to both tenant/landlord.

My properties are let through and agent and it's been easy going - the agent and their lease agreement acts in the interests of both parties (lessor and lessee), but I have heard bad reports about Just Letting - it seems that they are only looking after the lessor.

Many here suggest withholding rent in lieu of the deposit - this is illegal and in one case a few years back when I had a useless agent letting my property the tenants didn't pay for a few months, and when they left it cost about 10 times the deposit to repair the damage, and they still had the cheek to ask for their deposit.
The lease agreements make it very clear what the deposit is used for and how, and don't sign it if you don't intend adhering to that.

 

[Frankie]

Also be very careful about admitting liability for rates and taxes. I don't know about anywhere else in the country, but in Jozi the owner and not the tenant is responsible to the city for these. The responsibility of the tenant is only for electricity and water.
I'm part of a property syndicate and this is true on all of our properties.
On all of our leases, if either party does not renew/cancel prior to the expiry of the lease, the agreement automatically reverts to a month to month basis. According to our legal advice at the time, this had to be specifically stated in the contract or we, as lessors, would be taking a hit if anything went wrong.

This is the way mine works (through and agent) and I believe it's is the industry standard, although there are other options.

 

[Shake&Bake]

FFS some of the advice coming in here is scary

It's a contract, which if not followed to the letter is going to have Oogie in trouble.
Really guys - I was also of the opinion to just fight it out, but this situation should be looked at sensibly and in a calm manner.
Naturally we want to fight for the Oogie, but the contract is still there.
There may be some ambiguity or a loophole, with relation to the "out by 11:30am" deal, but there is no advice that can be given here until we see the full contract (IMO).

Oogie - which area are you in?
I would not take the word of an Estate Agent in this case.
I've posted the number for the Housing Tribunal - give them a call - it's a sharecall number and from my experience I waited about a minute to have my call answered.

You can spend your day posting away here and we're more than happy to assist, but you need clarity and I'm afraid that you're not going to get it here as there are so many conflicting statements/advice coming through.

Give them a call: 086 010 6166 and speak to a consultant, get piece of mind and then go ahead and fill us in. (or get the contract up somewhere for us to see)

/2c

 

[Dolby]

My properties are let through and agent and it's been easy going - the agent and their lease agreement acts in the interests of both parties (lessor and lessee), but I have heard bad reports about Just Letting - it seems that they are only looking after the lessor.

No - they look after themselves, only.

After a year, I took over managing my the electricity and water account myself - as they let the bill get to R6000.00. However they still took the full R850.00 commission

They never once checked the property, or even knew where it was.

They didn't know when the tenant actually left and subletted to his sister.

Often, I'd get the rent 20-30th of the month - and only after many phone calls/fights.

Work carried out through their 'repair man' (R3600.00) was not carried out at all - despite me paying the money. Since I hadn't been to the house in almost 2 years, I've only just found out.

They actually refunded two months commission for bad management of the property, as admission of guilt.

And many, many other issues.