Here’s an idea to beat load-shedding - instead of bailing out Eskom, subsidise solar power

MightyQuin

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So it was less than R20k a few years ago?
Sheeze, I don't know...my time machine's cheap deep cycle batteries are flat, so I cannot go and check.

The actual point is that Li-ion batteries are still prohibitively expensive for most people looking for a home solution.
 

wingnut771

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Why? Wouldn’t they make the same profit and simply pay those feeding back into the grid (at a much lower rate) instead of Eskom?

It should be MORE profit for municipalities but less for Eskom.
Exactly.

Imagine there was a Gigafactory in SA?
 

SauRoNZA

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It is a good idea, but it fails to mention several other issues...

1) The system basically has to be replaced every ten years (in an optimum scenario).
2) It takes more income away from Eskom and local municipalities thereby further endangering their economic viability.
3) If it incorporates a battry backup system, then it can take up some space and also increases insurance risk due to possible fire risk.
4) Theft of solar panels and electrical equipment is a high possibility in South Africa
5) Governments around the world have shown a higher propensity to tax such installations (due to decreased income) rather than subsidise such installations. In fact, Cape Town is trying to do this very thing, but requiring registration and licensing.
6) Etc.
1) What needs to be replaced other than batteries?

This should in theory also become less and less an issue in time? Or at least extend further and further with technology increase.

It’s not like Eskom is maintenance free either.

But it’s part of why a rebate makes sense as it subsidises this cost for owners where at present it’s all out of their own pockets.
 

Swa

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Why? Wouldn’t they make the same profit and simply pay those feeding back into the grid (at a much lower rate) instead of Eskom?

It should be MORE profit for municipalities but less for Eskom.
You still lose the income from the people who now use solar and you end up paying them to do it as well.

Sheeze, I don't know...my time machine's cheap deep cycle batteries are flat, so I cannot go and check.

The actual point is that Li-ion batteries are still prohibitively expensive for most people looking for a home solution.
No they aren't. 2 batteries for an average household vs a dozen. Slightly more capital expenditure at first but they last longer as well.
 

neoprema

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Shame, such innocence.
You are missing the point completely. It’s about kickbacks corruption and stealing money on the side. Like the rest of Africa, leadership is not there for its people. It’s there to make itself rich at the people’s expense.

But nice idea. In a proper country it may have had some promise...
 

MightyQuin

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No they aren't. 2 batteries for an average household vs a dozen. Slightly more capital expenditure at first but they last longer as well.
Ok wait...so 2 Li-ion batteries can now suddenly do the same as a dozen "standard" deep cycle batteries?

How does that work?
 

elvis_presley

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Ok wait...so 2 Li-ion batteries can now suddenly do the same as a dozen "standard" deep cycle batteries?

How does that work?
Bigger batteries :)

Seriously though - I've just gone through this whole thing myself... Li-ion are indeed super expensive. I bought enough batteries to get me through load shedding ... R20k batteries to back my 5.5KW solar panels, equivalent Li-ion would have cost R100k+. I also got a decent battery manager for my set-up, so my cheap R20k of batteries should last 10 years.

Edit: another note, my solar guy said it's a bit risky to go Li-ion right now, electric cars are gobbling up all the AAA grade batteries, and he's had quite a few issues with Li-ion installations as the general impression in the industry is the batteries that make it to home power banks didn't pass the test to make it in to cars.
 

Swa

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Ok wait...so 2 Li-ion batteries can now suddenly do the same as a dozen "standard" deep cycle batteries?

How does that work?
First it's the capacity. Secondly they can be used nearly 100% instead of the 60% for lead-acid. So it's less batteries for the same capacity as with lead-acid you have to over budget. This also means less full charge cycles over their lifetime in addition to their extended standard lifetime.
 

Swa

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Bigger batteries :)

Seriously though - I've just gone through this whole thing myself... Li-ion are indeed super expensive. I bought enough batteries to get me through load shedding ... R20k batteries to back my 5.5KW solar panels, equivalent Li-ion would have cost R100k+. I also got a decent battery manager for my set-up, so my cheap R20k of batteries should last 10 years.

Edit: another note, my solar guy said it's a bit risky to go Li-ion right now, electric cars are gobbling up all the AAA grade batteries, and he's had quite a few issues with Li-ion installations as the general impression in the industry is the batteries that make it to home power banks didn't pass the test to make it in to cars.
I have some news for you. They won't last 10 years and in even 5 years or less you're going to have issues if you didn't over budget. Then 1kWh with Li-ion isn't the same as 1kWh with lead-acid as you severely reduce their lifespan when you keep using that whole 1kWh. I doubt your solar guy knows what he's talking about as these are the same batteries used in data centres so no issue with quality and they even come with ethernet ports. Biggest issue is it's new tech and the guys aren't familiar with how they work.
 

MightyQuin

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First it's the capacity. Secondly they can be used nearly 100% instead of the 60% for lead-acid. So it's less batteries for the same capacity as with lead-acid you have to over budget. This also means less full charge cycles over their lifetime in addition to their extended standard lifetime.
A 100Ah Li-ion battery will last just as long as a 100Ah Calcium or Lead Acid battery, when putting the same load on it.

So you cannot say that you can replace 24 Calcium or Lead Acid batteries, with 2 Li-ion and get the same result.

Discharging 100% instead of 60% is crazy. You need time to properly re-charge these batteries.
 

wingnut771

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Bigger batteries :)

Seriously though - I've just gone through this whole thing myself... Li-ion are indeed super expensive. I bought enough batteries to get me through load shedding ... R20k batteries to back my 5.5KW solar panels, equivalent Li-ion would have cost R100k+. I also got a decent battery manager for my set-up, so my cheap R20k of batteries should last 10 years.

Edit: another note, my solar guy said it's a bit risky to go Li-ion right now, electric cars are gobbling up all the AAA grade batteries, and he's had quite a few issues with Li-ion installations as the general impression in the industry is the batteries that make it to home power banks didn't pass the test to make it in to cars.
Secondhand with 80% life?
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