Here’s what it’s like to be unable to visualize anything

[R4ziel]

If you ever get a brainscan done on your head, I would be interested to know if there's something unusual about the structure of your corpus callosum (it's a bundle of nerves that connects the two hemispheres).

I would love to know this too!

What I would like to know is this related to the reason im struggling to study. I can read something and it goes in, I can repeat it after a couple of times of reading it, but when I get to the test I can think of some of the stuff I read but I can't "see"or visualize the stuff I studied.

Maybe there is a different way for me to study, this is such a confusing day haha!

 

[Xarog]

I would love to know this too!

What I would like to know is this related to the reason im struggling to study. I can read something and it goes in, I can repeat it after a couple of times of reading it, but when I get to the test I can think of some of the stuff I read but I can't "see"or visualize the stuff I studied.

Maybe there is a different way for me to study, this is such a confusing day haha!

Do you struggle with the visual/spatial part of IQ tests, by any chance?

 

[R4ziel]

Do you struggle with the visual/spatial part of IQ tests, by any chance?

Do you mean the gears and shapes thing they show you on those tests?

If they give me the gear test, I can work out whats going to turn where and what gear will turn by way of assesing which gear wil turn if the previous one will, not visually but factually. If this one turns left, the other turns right for example.

When they give me shapes to compare sizes, I struggle.
When they tell me to remember the position of stuff on the one page and determine the location on the next page, I might as well skip that part.

Unless I make a mental note of the rabbit being in the 2nd square down and right, while the other is complete left and top, then I cannot figure out where they were from the image.

You know those cards they hold up and ask what do you see? I see blotches, and cards. nothing more. There is no visual image represented by any of that.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Xarog]

Do you mean the gears and shapes thing they show you on those tests?

If they give me the gear test, I can work out whats going to turn where and what gear will turn by way of assesing which gear wil turn if the previous one will, not visually but factually. If this one turns left, the other turns right for example.

When they give me shapes to compare sizes, I struggle.
When they tell me to remember the position of stuff on the one page and determine the location on the next page, I might as well skip that part.

Unless I make a mental note of the rabbit being in the 2nd square down and right, while the other is complete left and top, then I cannot figure out where they were from the image.

You know those cards they hold up and ask what do you see? I see blotches, and cards. nothing more. There is no visual image represented by any of that.

Does that answer your question?

Yup, that answers my question perfectly.

If I may ask, what are you studying?

 

[R4ziel]

Yup, that answers my question perfectly.

If I may ask, what are you studying?

I am an IT manager at the moment, but working on getting my MCSE and higher Microsoft qualifications.

I have just realised some other facts as well. I had to help an engineer through a process to reinstall drivers and although I knew the steps all of the way, I couldnt actually visualize what he would be seeing in front of him, For me it was a step by step "Click here" procedure rather than a visualization of "You will see this"

Everything for me is so weird now as Im trying to figure out how it feels for someone who would see the material they studied and can relay that into correct answers.

 

[Xarog]

I am an IT manager at the moment, but working on getting my MCSE and higher Microsoft qualifications.

I have just realised some other facts as well. I had to help an engineer through a process to reinstall drivers and although I knew the steps all of the way, I couldnt actually visualize what he would be seeing in front of him, For me it was a step by step "Click here" procedure rather than a visualization of "You will see this"

Everything for me is so weird now as Im trying to figure out how it feels for someone who would see the material they studied and can relay that into correct answers.

Well, when I was growing up, I often got told I had an aptitude for visual processing based on the aptitude tests that the schools have you do and so forth. I can still remember the visual memories of the vivid dreams I've had, for example. I once asked my dad if he had any memories of his dad (my grandfather died in an explosion when my dad was 2), and my dad described to me how he had one memory of his dad carrying him as he walked. The most memorable part of that memory is actually the scene I imagined in my head of my dad being carried by a grandfather I never got to meet, I can't remember where I had that conversation with my dad or any of the details of the way he looked (haircut, clothes, etc.) at the time.

But even so, it's not absolute. There are many things that I remember factually like you do instead of visually. There are also ways of thinking where trying to "visualise" the problem is perfectly useless. Imo logical thinking is a good example of that; it's verbal, not visual.

 

[R4ziel]

Well, when I was growing up, I often got told I had an aptitude for visual processing based on the aptitude tests that the schools have you do and so forth. I can still remember the visual memories of the vivid dreams I've had, for example. I once asked my dad if he had any memories of his dad (my grandfather died in an explosion when my dad was 2), and my dad described to me how he had one memory of his dad carrying him as he walked. The most memorable part of that memory is actually the scene I imagined in my head of my dad being carried by a grandfather I never got to meet, I can't remember where I had that conversation with my dad or any of the details of the way he looked (haircut, clothes, etc.) at the time.

But even so, it's not absolute. There are many things that I remember factually like you do instead of visually. There are also ways of thinking where trying to "visualise" the problem is perfectly useless. Imo logical thinking is a good example of that; it's verbal, not visual.

Well where you describe that scene, i only got the facts from it, not anything visual at all. I didnt see a man carrying a child, its like my mind never processed that should have been an image.

The way I would describe it is : I am reading the book while you are watching the movie. We see the same thing but for me it would be a descriptive paragraph of words, and for you it would be a picture of the character.

I can't think of any situation where either would be expressly more valuable or useful, I just think its a different way of experiencing the world.

I would however like to experience what its like to visualize something and be able to draw it. I can't draw or shape anything at all. Drawing for me doesnt happen, if I try to shape anything out of clay, nothing ever comes of it as I dont even know where to start, for me its a lump of clay.

 

[konfab]

I am a tad skeptical about the "anything" part.

This problem requires a skill called mental rotation.


@R4ziel, can you do this problem?

 

[konfab]

I am a tad skeptical about the "anything" part.

This problem requires a skill called mental rotation.
View attachment 363204

@R4ziel, can you do this problem?

 

[R4ziel]

I am a tad skeptical about the "anything" part.

This problem requires a skill called mental rotation.
View attachment 363204

@R4ziel, can you do this problem?

Would A,C be correct?

The way I do this is to count the blocks and angles, but initially it just looks like blocks with no correlation other than the style they are presented in.

Im not sure what you want me to test with the images you posted?
It did take me a couple of minutes to do though, it definitely wasn't easy. I can't visualize rotating the block in my mind to look like the other's position, if that's what you were looking for?

 

[animal531]

If you ever get a brainscan done on your head, I would be interested to know if there's something unusual about the structure of your corpus callosum (it's a bundle of nerves that connects the two hemispheres).

I'd doubt that it's a problem between the two hemispheres, since people losing connection between the two sides have been studied intensely before, and in such a study you'd think they'd pick up on a loss of sensory imagination.

I'd rather think that it's a section of brain (where visual and other sensory imagination is happening) which isn't properly connecting to and/or feeding back to short term memory.


Either way, super interesting stuff.

 

[azbob]

Do clouds just look like clouds to you? And rock formations? Do you see things in any of those besides clouds and rocks?

 

[R4ziel]

Do clouds just look like clouds to you?

Hahahaha, what the hell else are they supposed to look like? They are clouds, on a background of blue.

I understand people see pictures in clouds sometimes, I have seen this before, but just the outline that is representative of say a animal or something, but its mostly a cloud in a very very rough shape of something familiar. It never is more than clouds for me

Rocks are rocks.

You know when they do lego advertisements they show two blocks on eachother and say its an airplane? Thats super difficult for me. I see one block on top of another, but can associate that the bottom one would be the fuselage and the top one the wings, but if you gave me the 2 blocks and said guess what this is, my first answer would be "Lego?"

 

[Xarog]

I'd doubt that it's a problem between the two hemispheres, since people losing connection between the two sides have been studied intensely before, and in such a study you'd think they'd pick up on a loss of sensory imagination.

I'd rather think that it's a section of brain (where visual and other sensory imagination is happening) which isn't properly connecting to and/or feeding back to short term memory.


Either way, super interesting stuff.

Some people are born without a corpus callosum. It's known that the right hemisphere deals with spatial processing, while the left hemisphere tends to be responsible for verbal skills. I'm not saying my guess is right, but based on everything I've read about the asymmetry of brain functions, it at least seems plausible to me.

http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/545/Right-Brain-Hemisphere.html

R4ziel, have you ever tried drawing with your left hand?

 

[R4ziel]

Some people are born without a corpus callosum. It's known that the right hemisphere deals with spatial processing, while the left hemisphere tends to be responsible for verbal skills. I'm not saying my guess is right, but based on everything I've read about the asymmetry of brain functions, it at least seems plausible to me.

http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/545/Right-Brain-Hemisphere.html

R4ziel, have you ever tried drawing with your left hand?

I can't draw with my right hand even. The best I can conjure up are rough shapes, like rectangles and triangles that are Isometric (I think thats the word) that we learnt in Technical Drawing in High school. That is the extent of me drawing something people can recognize. Stick figures are very hard to do.

I can write perfectly with my left hand, I am quite good at swapping my hand functions over and can game with the mouse in my left hand as well, just tried drawing left now, didnt come out so well. So thats a no, I cant draw with my left hand either.

 

[Solarion]

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/19/11683274/aphantasia

That must suck. Everyone goes to that happy place when down or stressed. This guys happy place doesn't exist.

I am curious though, how does he remember who his friends/family members or house looks like if he is unable to recall the details?

 

[R4ziel]

That must suck. Everyone goes to that happy place when down or stressed. This guys happy place doesn't exist.

I am curious though, how does he remember who his friends/family members or house looks like if he is unable to recall the details?

There are different kinds of happy places, mine I find I find in Gaming. Whenever I deal directly with something I can see all the details perfectly so while im gaming im "in my happy place"

Remembering things is different when you can't visualize I've discovered since seeing this article which made me question everything. I remember traits of people and my mind makes kindof a "map" of some kind which I remember people by. I wont be able to tell you what my friends or parents look like in any way that would make you recognize them, but when I see them they are familiar and I know it is them. I often don't recognize something small has changed like a haircut or weight loss or something because I dont know how the previous version looked.

 

[R4ziel]

Hey guys

Im not sure if anyone would be interested but I have been thinking about this topic alot and I thought I would come back to shed some more light after having experienced the world with my new knowledge.

When I initially found the article it was a weird feeling for me to think that some people actually see images when thinking about things, and I asked everyone who didnt want to lock me up for sounding crazy. At first I was in disbelief, almost dazed at the fact that people actually see images when they think of stuff, damn, I would be day dreaming all day every day if I could see things like that!!

Anyway, Ive also found that I have no representation of smell and taste either, which is mostly linked to aphantasia as well. When I eat something like biltong for example, I know im eating meat and it tastes good, I can taste the chilli powder (I like very hot food) and I can taste the sinew, the moment I stop eating it, describing the taste is impossible. I would not know how it smelt or tasted, there is just nothing even when im trying to think of it now. When I eat biltong again, I am not able to compare it to the previous pack i had the week before, its like its something new for me.
When im ordering from a restaurant I always order the same thing, I never get bored of the taste and I never dread eating something again. I could eat pizza/steers 4 times a day for 2 weeks and I'd still be fine with it on the last day. Everytime I experience something like that I have a basi reference, but unless im directly interacting with it I have no way of recalling that.

That was the most effective example I could think of, but its the same with people, although a bit harder.

Lets assume im talking to a person Ive known for years, I know who he is and I know every detail as long as he is standing there. As soon as I close my eyes or the person leaves, the shutter closes and thats that, the image of the person is gone. I do think of people often, but more of the significance of a meeting with the person rather than the moment with the person himself/herself.


It really is strange and I have gone through several stages of freaked out to semi depressed, but I am trying to find out more facts and reading up on the research to see whether there is something I would be able to help with, for the most part its quite interesting.

I read in an article that it is mostly linked to severe head trauma, which made this even worse because I can distinctly remember when I was 5 years old at my brithday party I had a very bad accident and had to get stiches in my face and forehead. I smashed my head against bricks when falling off my BMX. The last image I remembered for years was the dinosaur birthday cake I had that day. After many years that image faded as well.

I hope someone finds this interesting

 

[Bobbin]

I'm intrigued Thanks for sharing.

I wouldn't say the minds eye is crystal clear though. It can be "blurry or hazy" and the more detail is added the more difficult it is to hold the picture together without other things changing or dropping off. I guess it is somehow tied to a working memory that can only hold so many details simultaneously. For example in my minds eye right now I can visualize a standard rubiks cube and keep track of 2 sides of the same color - then make 2 moves, one from each side into a space I've not yet visualized a color (where it looks grey, white or neutral - a color my brain can easily group). Thereafter it fast becomes increasingly challenging to track where the colors have gone at move 3, 4, 5 until impossible. So the minds eye seems to be limited to working memory. Not sure if others will agree?

I've long had a "theory" that memories are not individually stored anywhere but are a recollection using existing sensory circuitry. That the brain somehow has a method of "compressing data" using triggers to parts of existing sensory circuitry for memory recall. I'd say visualization probably occurs using a series of memories and I'd not be surprised if the prefrontal cortex plays a big role there. Though that's not to discount other parts of the process as well. But take little note as my theories are usually wacky and based on no research

I can't help but wonder if you're very familiar with the concept of being present and aware at all times? Does your mind wander and if so to where?

 

[R4ziel]

I'm intrigued Thanks for sharing.

I wouldn't say the minds eye is crystal clear though. It can be "blurry or hazy" and the more detail is added the more difficult it is to hold the picture together without other things changing or dropping off. I guess it is somehow tied to a working memory that can only hold so many details simultaneously. For example in my minds eye right now I can visualize a standard rubiks cube and keep track of 2 sides of the same color - then make 2 moves, one from each side into a space I've not yet visualized a color (where it looks grey, white or neutral - a color my brain can easily group). Thereafter it fast becomes increasingly challenging to track where the colors have gone at move 3, 4, 5 until impossible. So the minds eye seems to be limited to working memory. Not sure if others will agree?

I've long had a "theory" that memories are not individually stored anywhere but are a recollection using existing sensory circuitry. That the brain somehow has a method of "compressing data" using triggers to parts of existing sensory circuitry for memory recall. I'd say visualization probably occurs using a series of memories and I'd not be surprised if the prefrontal cortex plays a big role there. Though that's not to discount other parts of the process as well. But take little note as my theories are usually wacky and based on no research

I can't help but wonder if you're very familiar with the concept of being present and aware at all times? Does your mind wander and if so to where?

That si absolutely amazing, thank you for the post. I am still trying to get over the fact that people see images in their mind, nevermind being able to manipulate them. I assumed it would be kindof like looking at a photo. That is awesome.

I know what you mean (I think), it depends on what Im doing though. When Im gaming for example my mind is captured 100%, there are no distractions and the world might as well not exist around me. I am focussed, present and aware.

But If im doing something im not quite captured or interested by, then I would say im never really present, my mind is constantly thinking of random things like what Im going to do tonight, stuff I missed in the last week, why statues are all the same colour generally, who figured out they would eat olives and tell other people to do the same...
My mind definitely wonders, but it thinks of convesations and facts, I dont imagine myself lazing on a beach somewhere in a hammock like you would see an image.