Here's why coal power could cost SA over R1.6 trillion

Mantashe has strongly condemned pressures from developed nations like those in Europe to reduce the country’s reliance on coal.

“South Africans must never allow ourselves to be encircled by the developed nations who fund lobbyists to pit our country’s developmental needs against their own self-serving protection of the environment,” he said.

“Our country deserves an opportunity to transition at pace and scale determined by its citizens.”
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If there was ever an example of a self-serving corrupt cadre POS, who has his fingers in the coal cookie jar, it is him.

What the SA citizens of this country really deserve, is a country where self-serving corrupt cadre POSes are all drop-kicked into an Nkandla compound prison (preferably from a helicopter that never lands inside the prison), they can be their own food supply when they've eaten everything else that was already there.
 
j4ck455 said:
If there was ever an example of a self-serving corrupt cadre POS, who has his fingers in the coal cookie jar, it is him.

What the SA citizens of this country really deserve, is a country where self-serving corrupt cadre POSes are all drop-kicked into an Nkandla compound prison (preferably from a helicopter that never lands inside the prison), they can be their own food supply when they've eaten everything else that was already there.
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Your problem like many others here is personal with Mantashe, his comments on the matter however is correct
 
StBlade said:
So does that mean that the EU will also not buy or heavy tax stuff Made in China?
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They will tax, not heavy tax, it's based on the countries difference to the EU average.

For the beginning, China has pretty good clean energy policies for stuff like aluminium and iron. Their export of just iron and steel is around 6bn EUR, and tax estimate on that is around 200m or so (3-5%), so impact won't be that huge yet.

Note it's a ramping scale over the next decade, and at the beginning only certain goods will be impacted. Will properly see cost impact by end of year, since from October it's just going to be disclosure of amount and not have to pay yet.

Overall it's a good thing, allows the EU to compete better, and encourages the rest of the world to go more green, besides the fact that renewable power is just cheaper, so everyone is heading in that direction anyways.

Mantashe comment is just stupid, since South Africa can compete better with renewables (way better sun, wind, etc.), has to build less for the same output as others, so if actually transition, it would be a competitive advantage against a lot of the rest of the world.
 
Johnatan56 said:
They will tax, not heavy tax, it's based on the countries difference to the EU average.

For the beginning, China has pretty good clean energy policies for stuff like aluminium and iron. Their export of just iron and steel is around 6bn EUR, and tax estimate on that is around 200m or so (3-5%), so impact won't be that huge yet.

Note it's a ramping scale over the next decade, and at the beginning only certain goods will be impacted. Will properly see cost impact by end of year, since from October it's just going to be disclosure of amount and not have to pay yet.

Overall it's a good thing, allows the EU to compete better, and encourages the rest of the world to go more green, besides the fact that renewable power is just cheaper, so everyone is heading in that direction anyways.

Mantashe comment is just stupid, since South Africa can compete better with renewables (way better sun, wind, etc.), has to build less for the same output as others, so if actually transition, it would be a competitive advantage against a lot of the rest of the world.
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Have a look at our wind output over the last 2 months, all over the place, and that is in the windy areas:

Hourly renewable generation - Eskom Data Portal

Hourly renewable generation per resource type for the current and previous month. This only reflects renewable owned by Eskom or that Eskom has contracts with. Embedded generation is not included.
www.eskom.co.za www.eskom.co.za
1690708762541.png
 
The EU was and is still importing coal from us after they cut off their nose to spite their face by sanctioning Russian cheap gas exports.
 
wingnut771 said:
Have a look at our wind output over the last 2 months, all over the place, and that is in the windy areas:

Hourly renewable generation - Eskom Data Portal

Hourly renewable generation per resource type for the current and previous month. This only reflects renewable owned by Eskom or that Eskom has contracts with. Embedded generation is not included.
www.eskom.co.za www.eskom.co.za
View attachment 1564528
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That doesn't really matter as you're talking about very little wind energy with few turbines generally in the same area, and not taking into account solar (PVC or CSP), and other storage.

If spread across the country, that variation will be less, and remember that wind and solar is cheap, you can build multiple GW for the same price as coal, and the cost of generation and storage is cheaper than coal in Europe, it's definitely cheaper in South Africa.
 
Johnatan56 said:
That doesn't really matter as you're talking about very little wind energy with few turbines generally in the same area, and not taking into account solar (PVC or CSP), and other storage.

If spread across the country, that variation will be less, and remember that wind and solar is cheap, you can build multiple GW for the same price as coal, and the cost of generation and storage is cheaper than coal in Europe, it's definitely cheaper in South Africa.
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Why install wind turbines in parts of the country that isn't windy? Seems like a waste.
 
JacquesSteffen said:
The EU was and is still importing coal from us after they cut off their nose to spite their face by sanctioning Russian cheap gas exports.
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The volumes are small though. Most of our coal goes to Asia now afaik. My fat and dry loss on Thungela supports this
 
wingnut771 said:
Why install wind turbines in parts of the country that isn't windy? Seems like a waste.
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Not going to link now as late, but check out where bid windows 1+2 are versus analysis of where in South Africa would be good, and how much can be installed.
South Africa has a total wind capacity of 3.1GW, most of the world that's 1-1.5GW as ~35% CPF.
 
And what about the knock on effects?
This will go right down to manufactured goods.
Locally produced vehicles, wine, fruit and other produce...
But, this is only an issue for 8-10 years time. So, nothing to worry about hey cANCer :mad:
 
This legislation from the EU is actually great news for SA.

We have a competitive advantage on wind and solar generation resources, which will make our products more competitive on the EU market.

Pity the ANC cadres keep sabotaging it, because it's less convenient for them to steal.
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Your problem like many others here is personal with Mantashe, his comments on the matter however is correct
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What comments? He keeps reiterating that we can't just go from coal to renewables overnight which everyone already knows and nobody is expecting from us. For him this is personal as in he gets his fat pockets lined by the coal industry, why he's kicking and screaming to stay in his position. As others have said this can actually be good for us if we act now before penalties happen. We should have acted 10 years ago already but no...
 
Swa said:
What comments? He keeps reiterating that we can't just go from coal to renewables overnight which everyone already knows and nobody is expecting from us. For him this is personal as in he gets his fat pockets lined by the coal industry, why he's kicking and screaming to stay in his position. As others have said this can actually be good for us if we act now before penalties happen. We should have acted 10 years ago already but no...
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That jackass posted the comments which I then quoted
What were we supposed to have acted on 10 years ago and why do you think renewables is the next step after coal, no country is running 100% on solar and wind - I prefer to say solar and wind, we dont have sufficient hydro options
 
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