Heyneke Meyer and the All Whites

[Fulcrum29]

So who could be used as the 7 non-white players?

Mohoje, Kolisi, Pietersen, Habana, Hendricks, Nyakane, Beast (does he even count?), Aplon, De Jongh, Mvovo...?

http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/rugby/2014/09/11/racial-quotas-issue-hits-bok-camp

Saturday’s match-day squad will fall significantly short of the minimum quota requirement set for next year. Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Tendai Mtawarira and Trevor Nyakane are the black players in the match-day squad, while Lwazi Mvovo, Oupa Mohoje and Gurthrö Steenkamp are the other members of the touring squad.

SARU requested citizenship being granted to Tendai in 2010, which do make him a black-player, instead as a foreigner. I love Beast, he is going nowhere.

 

[Wino]

Just read this now... They should have fielded Teboho Mohoje instead of calling up Whitely...

I agree with this one case in particular. Doesn't make the quota system valid though.

For an astute political selection this would have made sense, and I think Mohoje wouldnt have disapointed.
But I still think Whitely is better at this point. He is very fast around the field and our loosies need some extra speed.

 

[OGroteKoning]

Why are there only 4 players of colour in the EP side? Disgraceful!

 

[Pitbull]

For an astute political selection this would have made sense, and I think Mohoje wouldnt have disapointed.
But I still think Whitely is better at this point. He is very fast around the field and our loosies need some extra speed.

But he was called up from SA to go to Australia when you have someone there that was selected above him to begin with. I'm pissed cause Whitley is not there for the Lions... But the point is still valid

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Who else will carry the tackle bags?

Trust you to say that!

 

[OGroteKoning]

Trust you to say that!

Well, a ridiculous article deserves a ridiculous comment.

Trust you to not comment on my lashing or on the EP... But then that is also kinda expected

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Well, a ridiculous article deserves a ridiculous comment.

Ridiculous is one thing, insensitive is another. I'm getting the latter through your post. But we're entitled to differ.

I suppose the EP Kings&All Whites(formerly known as the Springboks) have one thing in common then - underrepresentation by Africans, or lack of transformation renders them whipping boys. But on a serious note, good observation about the EP Kings. To think they also got political support for a Super Rugby berth while promising a transformed side, yet they did the opposite was quite telling.

At the end of the day our ethnicities do cloud things, and it's not necessarily racism. Football is my first love. I have over the years considered certain Indian&Coloured players more worthy of Bafana Bafana or playing for the two Soweto giants (Chiefs&Pirates) - I'm Sundowns - but they've never been picked. Fans themselves have their bias, so it's not entirely unexpected to get that from guys here.

What is highly disturbing is that Heyneke is going out of his way to overlook a Black player - one that is on form, talented, and a definite star for the future. That is the key point one should have draw from this article, and to be honest that must concern you whatever your inclinations might be. Bear in mind that the writer mentioned - "It’s racism, plain and simple" and "systemically racist sport" - via a well argued article. Like I said, every SA rugby lover should be concerned, at least in some way.

 

[deweyzeph]

I suppose the EP Kings&All Whites(formerly known as the Springboks) have one thing in common then - underrepresentation by Africans, or lack of transformation renders them whipping boys. But on a serious note, good observation about the EP Kings. To think they also got political support for a Super Rugby berth while promising a transformed side, yet they did the opposite was quite telling.

Every single person in the current Springbok team is an African. Are you saying that they are not?

 

[Fulcrum29]

What is highly disturbing is that Heyneke is going out of his way to overlook a Black player - one that is on form, talented, and a definite star for the future. That is the key point one should have draw from this article, and to be honest that must concern you whatever your inclinations might be. Bear in mind that the writer mentioned - "It’s racism, plain and simple" and "systemically racist sport" - via a well argued article. Like I said, every SA rugby lover should be concerned, at least in some way.

Have you personally asked Oupa his position on this, do you even know what is happening in the Springbok camp?

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Every single person in the current Springbok team is an African. Are you saying that they are not?

It depends on who's talking. One Afrikaaner proudly calls himself a European (I foget his name but he' very renowned in arts and writing), while the other a certain unmistakable FWdK calls himself African. Sadly like millions he speaks no languages of African origin.

In the Springboks we have Africans, Coloureds and European-Africans. Hopefully sometime soon we'll have an Indian as well. But you should spare a thought at how stupid we Africans(Blacks) sound when we tell our children, grandchildren, nieces&nephews that white people are Africans. It's very hard. Out of "politeness" towards you we do, but it doesn't come naturally.

At the end of the day, we should not cloud things by arguments of convenience. Americans call themselves Americans and relegate proper Americans to "Native Americans". In the world there are Africans, African-Americans and African-Europeans etc. I don't see why there shouldn't be European-Africans, but to do that would be to compel so called Americans to accept that they are in fact European-Americans as well and should address themselves as such as they expect of African-Americas&Latin-Americans, but unfortunately those who control the media&publishers would never allow that, and understandably so.

This guy argues very well why he considers himself African, and I'm sure you share his viewpoints. http://youngrory.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/do-white-people-from-south-africa-identify-as-african/

But this guy also argues very well why we are not all and will never all be Africans. http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sent.../28/we-are-not-all-africans-black-people-are/

The reality is certain things will always be cosmetic, "forced" on people rather than accepted and will never hold in everyday life. So don't be quick to raise an alarm if I use the term African. Naturally I'm right. Everyone in the world knows what I'm referring to. It's not meant as a slight to anyone. Think "Happy Holidays' - "Merry Christmas" speak. Remember Walter's take on that?

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Have you personally asked Oupa his position on this, do you even know what is happening in the Springbok camp?

Of the cricket camp, many used to have such arguments - we don't know all the facts, but the likes Ntini and Herschelle Gibbs went on to shed light later on.

It's only recently that South African Black players have regularly been part of the Bok squads other than Zimbabweans (Beast, Chavanga&Mujati). Expect them to open up soon unless they're in a posh Supersport gig.

Speaking of Zimbabwe, they derive a lot of attention for the transformation in cricket, and unlike a the Boks/Proteas, some white people in and around the team were happy to shed light on the real happenings and feelings of the white cricketers - who some thought were hard done by. Pity we don't have similar honesty here. http://www.tomdecastella.com/?p=25

So while I may not know the full details, I have enough of an imagination to have a failry accurate extrapolated view.

 

[Spizz]

It depends on who's talking. One Afrikaaner proudly calls himself a European (I foget his name but he' very renowned in arts and writing), while the other a certain unmistakable FWdK calls himself African. Sadly like millions he speaks no languages of African origin.

In the Springboks we have Africans, Coloureds and European-Africans. Hopefully sometime soon we'll have an Indian as well. But you should spare a thought at how stupid we Africans(Blacks) sound when we tell our children, grandchildren, nieces&nephews that white people are Africans. It's very hard. Out of "politeness" towards you we do, but it doesn't come naturally.

At the end of the day, we should not cloud things by arguments of convenience. Americans call themselves Americans and relegate proper Americans to "Native Americans". In the world there are Africans, African-Americans and African-Europeans etc. I don't see why there shouldn't be European-Africans, but to do that would be to compel so called Americans to accept that they are in fact European-Americans as well and should address themselves as such as they expect of African-Americas&Latin-Americans, but unfortunately those who control the media&publishers would never allow that, and understandably so.

This guy argues very well why he considers himself African, and I'm sure you share his viewpoints. http://youngrory.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/do-white-people-from-south-africa-identify-as-african/

But this guy also argues very well why we are not all and will never all be Africans. http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sent.../28/we-are-not-all-africans-black-people-are/

The reality is certain things will always be cosmetic, "forced" on people rather than accepted and will never hold in everyday life. So don't be quick to raise an alarm if I use the term African. Naturally I'm right. Everyone in the world knows what I'm referring to. It's not meant as a slight to anyone. Think "Happy Holidays' - "Merry Christmas" speak. Remember Walter's take on that?

Try and tell a black person whose family have lived in France or England for a couple of generations that they are not French or English and it's all hell let loose, rioting on the streets and claims of racism all over the place.

It seems these ideals are easily interchangeable when it suits, with the common denominator being the white man on bended knee trying to be oh so sensitive to the whims of the eternally oppressed black man.

Will the white man ever be allowed to move on from the guilt foisted on him or will black entitlement forever hold him back?

 

[deweyzeph]

It depends on who's talking. One Afrikaaner proudly calls himself a European (I foget his name but he' very renowned in arts and writing), while the other a certain unmistakable FWdK calls himself African. Sadly like millions he speaks no languages of African origin.

In the Springboks we have Africans, Coloureds and European-Africans. Hopefully sometime soon we'll have an Indian as well. But you should spare a thought at how stupid we Africans(Blacks) sound when we tell our children, grandchildren, nieces&nephews that white people are Africans. It's very hard. Out of "politeness" towards you we do, but it doesn't come naturally.

At the end of the day, we should not cloud things by arguments of convenience. Americans call themselves Americans and relegate proper Americans to "Native Americans". In the world there are Africans, African-Americans and African-Europeans etc. I don't see why there shouldn't be European-Africans, but to do that would be to compel so called Americans to accept that they are in fact European-Americans as well and should address themselves as such as they expect of African-Americas&Latin-Americans, but unfortunately those who control the media&publishers would never allow that, and understandably so.

This guy argues very well why he considers himself African, and I'm sure you share his viewpoints. http://youngrory.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/do-white-people-from-south-africa-identify-as-african/

But this guy also argues very well why we are not all and will never all be Africans. http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sent.../28/we-are-not-all-africans-black-people-are/

The reality is certain things will always be cosmetic, "forced" on people rather than accepted and will never hold in everyday life. So don't be quick to raise an alarm if I use the term African. Naturally I'm right. Everyone in the world knows what I'm referring to. It's not meant as a slight to anyone. Think "Happy Holidays' - "Merry Christmas" speak. Remember Walter's take on that?

It's not an issue of consideration. If you were born and raised in South Africa, no matter what your skin colour, you are an African. That's just a matter of fact. Referring to black people exclusively as Africans is actually quite cringe-worthy if you ask me. It's not much different to referring to them as natives.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Let’s be brutally honest.
It has nothing to do with race, HM is playing his strongest possible team each week irrespectively of what some of us may think or feel. Why Oupa is even selected is beyond me, Jaques Potgieter, Siya Kolisi, Dewald Potgieter and Nizaam Carr are all beter than him, but that is my opinion and does not make it a fact.

This is an extremely high pressure game, and the coach takes a huge amount of flack if and when we loses a game, so don’t you think it’s fair to select the strongest possible team rather than playing average guys because they have to represent the team? If HM feels Oupa should not start, then he has his reasons, respect it.
Every player in the starting lineup is the best possible player in that position, sure we all have our own opinions and choices, i for one think Pienaar is the k@kest scrum half in the Southern Hemisphere, HM thinks he is good irrespective of my opinion, so should we rather not just respect the coaches selections and stop moaning because the players WE prefer is not playing/selected.

Believe it or not, HM is a good coach and he knows what he is doing.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Believe it or not, HM ... knows what he is doing.

I agree. He's making a very strong case for the Conservatives themselves to lobby that Peter de Villers be granted special clearance to receive a Knighthood at the earliest possible opportunity!

 

[Sting]

At national level you pick the strongest team available irrespective of race, language or creed.

If you have a strong and successful national team then you will attract new players to the game and the overall standard of play will improve.

You need to have different approaches for professional and amateur codes.

Impose quotas or transformation targets at the amateur levels.

If a player is good enough he will be snapped up by a professional side.

Sponsors back successful teams, not the politically correct teams (unless there's a BBBEE incentive to be obtained that will benefit the sponsor).

 

[OGroteKoning]

At national level you pick the strongest team available irrespective of race, language or creed.

If you have a strong and successful national team then you will attract new players to the game and the overall standard of play will improve.

You need to have different approaches for professional and amateur codes.

Impose quotas or transformation targets at the amateur levels.

If a player is good enough he will be snapped up by a professional side.

Sponsors back successful teams, not the politically correct teams (unless there's a BBBEE incentive to be obtained that will benefit the sponsor).

Except, none of the above is applicable to Bafunny Bafunny

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Except, none of the above is applicable to Bafunny Bafunny

How do you mean?

 

[Ho3n3r]

Ag siestog.

It's time black players grow a pair of balls, and play with the belief that they belong there. At the moment, they just get on the field and go missing sometimes. Compare this with the debuts of guys like Lood de Jager, Marcel Coetzee etc. You can just plain see they are playing for the jersey.

As long as you continue to have an inferiority complex, you'll never believe you're good enough. Also, if you truly believe you're being passed on the basis of color, then you might as well go do something else.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Ag siestog.

It's time black players grow a pair of balls, and play with the belief that they belong there. At the moment, they just get on the field and go missing sometimes. Compare this with the debuts of guys like Lood de Jager, Marcel Coetzee etc. You can just plain see they are playing for the jersey.

As long as you continue to have an inferiority complex, you'll never believe you're good enough. Also, if you truly believe you're being passed on the basis of color, then you might as well go do something else.

Uh, quite a racist generalisation there. Kolisi, Mvovo and Beast all had cracker debuts and careers subsequently.

Don't blame the players who are there based on merit for political pandering.