Heyneke Meyer and the All Whites

[sand_man]

Heyneke's boys don't enjoy it.

Again.. opinions, prejudices and perceptions.. OPaP we will call it from now for convenience...

 

[ZCFOutkast]

You never saw the 1974 Boks, did you?

No Sirree!

I'm African Mickey. You forget we didn't want 1995 to happen here. Because of some of you guys we hated rugby here remember? A proper survey among Africans old enough, would show you that Chester Williams tries&Lomu are higher in memory than Madiba handing Francois the trophy. But things have gotten better since.

At least today we're arguing which Africans should be part of the team ... on merit. My home province (EC) being the most active in the game, with lively commentary available on uMhlobo Wenene FM 93.2. Try listening to it and switch off your TV (assuming DSTV's Xhosa feed isn't on). Underrated&unsupported Vula Ngumbhoxo Lo being possibly the best rugby program produced in the land. If SS include Rugby in Compact you have no idea what they stand to gain.

 

[MickeyD]

No Sirree!

I'm African Mickey. You forget we didn't want 1995 to happen here. Because of some of you guys we hated rugby here remember? A proper survey among Africans old enough, would show you that Chester Williams tries&Lomu are higher in memory than Madiba handing Francois the trophy. But things have gotten better since.

At least today we're arguing which Africans should be part of the team ... on merit. My home province (EC) being the most active in the game, with lively commentary available on uMhlobo Wenene FM 93.2. Try listening to it and switch off your TV (assuming DSTV's Xhosa feed isn't on). Underrated&unsupported Vula Ngumbhoxo Lo being possibly the best rugby program produced in the land. If SS include Rugby in Compact you have no idea what they stand to gain.

I'm also African, just my pigmentation may be lighter than yours.

And yes, I do have an idea...

 

[KOPITE]

So I take it you weren't watching the last 20 minutes of yesterdays test?

That is just a glimpse of what the boks are capable of. If we can play a full 80 minutes like that, then every team will fear us,including the mighty AB's. We've got so much talented which is wasted by old school type bulls rugby. It's so boring that I lose interest so quickly. It's hard to see us win playing k@k rugby. I miss those days of Daniel Gerber when I'm jumping off my feet when we playing running rugby. That's why we have so many Kroesaders supporters because of the style of rugby they playing.

We need to get rid of HM with his kick and charge rugby

 

[OGroteKoning]

That is just a glimpse of what the boks are capable of. If we can play a full 80 minutes like that, then every team will fear us,including the mighty AB's. We've got so much talented which is wasted by old school type bulls rugby. It's so boring that I lose interest so quickly. It's hard to see us win playing k@k rugby. I miss those days of Daniel Gerber when I'm jumping off my feet when we playing running rugby. That's why we have so many Kroesaders supporters because of the style of rugby they playing.

We need to get rid of HM with his kick and charge rugby

Well if HM has ANY sense, he will work the "new" game plan with the last 20mins in mind. What you say is true. We all loved the Danie G, Carel dP, Neil B, Ray M, Johan H and a lot more. When these okes got going, you had to stand up because you won't see anything with the rest of the stadium already standing. The engine room did the work for the stars to entertain is. THAT is rugby! And that is the kind of rugby that will make us the 2015 RWC champions - nothing else. The AB's hinted last night they are heading into that direction. We better be able to do the same because kicking the ball into their back three will produce the kind of counter attack from the backs like Cullen & kie used to do.

 

[Creag]

/snip...

The AB's hinted last night they are heading into that direction. We better be able to do the same because kicking the ball into their back three will produce the kind of counter attack from the backs like Cullen & kie used to do.

Ball in hand through the phases is king. Any other way against the Aussies or AB's tilts the advantage in their favour... or any other team for the matter who excels in running the ball from broken play.

 

[MickeyD]

One thing that MUST change is kicking away first phase ball.

You only do that if you are under pressure and then you either find touch or place it in the corners near the flags ON CONDITION that you have your chasers put pressure on the defender.

In that way you can either win a lineout and gain ground OR the defender kicks it back and you can attack with ball IN HAND!!!

 

[ponder]

Well if HM has ANY sense, he will work the "new" game plan with the last 20mins in mind.

Was that last 15-20min actually part of his plan or did it just happen when the substitutes came on?

Next game we will be playing the same old borinhg HM bulls style crap which is a chore to watch.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

What is the quota for white players in the Bafana Bafana team?

Why should there be one? Is something stopping white players from competing on equal footing with black players in soccer? With rugby there's a very real historical context and cause & effect to be taken into account. Not so much with soccer. It's never been segregated. Even in the 70s/80s you had white players playing with black players.

 

[OGroteKoning]

Was that last 15-20min actually part of his plan or did it just happen when the substitutes came on?

Next game we will be playing the same old borinhg HM bulls style crap which is a chore to watch.

You have no idea how much I hope you are wrong.

 

[ponder]

You have no idea how much I hope you are wrong.

It would be great if I'm wrong.

 

[Dave]

Why should there be one? Is something stopping white players from competing on equal footing with black players in soccer? With rugby there's a very real historical context and cause & effect to be taken into account. Not so much with soccer. It's never been segregated. Even in the 70s/80s you had white players playing with black players.

Why should there be one? Easy, all sports should be equal and treated the same.

Out of interest, how many people do you think were playing rugby in the 70s/80s are in contention for the current Springbok squad?

It seems strange to run a quota on one sport and not the other when the current players were either young children or didn't even exist pre-1990.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Why should there be one? Easy, all sports should be equal and treated the same.

Yeah, in terms of equal opportunity and participation. Soccer has that, rugby doesn't. So they aren't equal yet.

Out of interest, how many people do you think were playing rugby in the 70s/80s are in contention for the current Springbok squad?

It seems strange to run a quota on one sport and not the other when the current players were either young children or didn't even exist pre-1990.

Well the problems in sport (as in the economy) aren't confined to only people who lived back then. It's structural and legacy problems that continue to have a detrimental influence today.

It's not really strange that one has a quota and the other doesn't when the two are fundamentally not facing the same problems and their history is so different.

 

[cr@zydude]

The question of white players in Bafana gets asked a lot, and it seems that no one pays attention to the answer.

There is no quota system, but Bafana is representitive in terms of white players. Dean Furman started both matches in September. 1 in 11 is about the ratio of whites in SA.

Darren Keet was also in the squad, and both have been included again this month.

Most PSL coaches are white, and at least a third of owners are too. There is no conspiracy keeping white players out of football. Their biggest problem is that too many model c and private schools choose not to offer football.

Jake White is also free now, having just quite the Sharks.

 

[ponder]

It would be great if I'm wrong.

+1

 

[thestaggy]

I think I've seen some of the worst rugby on display by the Boks more often under HM than anyone else. That's just my opinion.

I stand to be corrected, but every other "top" nation I can think of has produced some magic during the time HM's been coach - Eng, Aus, Fra, NZ, Arg, WAL, IRE&SCO - but I can't pick out one time that the Boks have made people stand up and take notice unde Heyneke. It's been punishing to watch!

The saddest thing in my view is tha Argentina have grown leaps and bounds while it seems the Boks have gone backwards as much as the Argentinians have progressed. Sure the Wallabies are unpredictable, turning into the French, but there's serious talent there and everyone knows it's enough to take the WC if they click. Even if we click I don;t see us winning the WC. Not by a long shot!

I'm sorry, but now you are talking nonsense. Scotland has played rugby that has made people stand up and take notice? Your credibility went out of the window with that statement. The Scots haven't done anything noticeable since the early 90s. Scottish rugby is sick, very sick. Since Meyer has been coach they have won 4 tests and lost to Samoa. Thus far they have won 1 test this year and it came against Italy. Last time we played them in Scotland we blanked them 28-0. They went into national mourning after the English humiliated them 20-0 this year. It wasn't a necessarily high score, but the nature of the defeat. Fans and analysts called it arguably the worst Scottish performance in history, void of any heart or ambition.

It is wholly untrue to say Argentina, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France and possibly even Australia have shown more promise than us. Aside from Australia's draw with the All Blacks this year, only the Boks have shown to be consistently close to the All Blacks in the past two years. That game at Ellis Park last year. When last did a team run at an All Black side like that and look to be on top? Australia don't even try and run at them anymore, preferring to slow the game down and lie on the ball any chance they get. Australia are probably playing the most negative rugby of all the top sides at the present time and this is echoed by their own fans. Only fitness separated us from the All Blacks at the end of the Ellis Park test last year. We had them pinned on their try line in the first test this year and they needed to defend like Trojans. Then Ellis Park last week.

The Boks are the only team in the world at the present moment that pose a legitimate threat to the All Blacks and we have been closing the gap.

 

[Drifter]

Well said thestaggy!!!1

 

[bandooq]

Select players based on political ethos and see how fast the team drops positions. The writer of this article has Mugabe's brains.

 

[Frankie_Yale]

Select players based on political ethos and see how fast the team drops positions. The writer of this article has Mugabe's brains.

doom and gloom BS.....

So you wouldnt pick Kolbe, Senatla, Afrika , Geduld , du Preez , Ntubeni, Habana , Carr , Kolisi , Aplon, De Jongh , Pietersen in our national team?

Funny how these are the players which stand out at international tournaments...

 

[OGroteKoning]

doom and gloom BS.....

So you wouldnt pick Kolbe, Senatla, Afrika , Geduld , du Preez , Ntubeni, Habana , Carr , Kolisi , Aplon, De Jongh , Pietersen in our national team?

Funny how these are the players which stand out at international tournaments...

Most of those you mentioned were picked on merit

EDIT: Actually all of them