High court to rule on public protector's 'whitewashed' Estina dairy report

skimread

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Handle all disagreements in a dignified and constitutional manner, as he is currently doing by taking the findings on review. Let Parliament do what they are supposed to do and what is expected of it.
Parliament has two factions. One supporting Ace and Zuma. The other not wanting to step on toes. You act like the ANC is not fractured. ANC is the majority in Parliament so if they are fractured the parliament is fractured.
Don't forget everyone in parliament has dirt\so they don't want to step on anyone's toes. Zuma even made a threat in your precious parliament that he has dirt on everyone.

The courts found against parliament. It is not an impartial organisation. It's flawed by factionalism, corrupt members and loyalty.

South Africa's top court has found that parliament failed to comply with its duties in holding President Jacob Zuma accountable over a public funding case.
Have you forgotten the travel scam in parliament where 37 members of parliament was found out stealing millions? None of them went to prison.
 
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ForceFate

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Parliament has two factions. One supporting Ace and Zuma. The other not wanting to step on toes. You act like the ANC is not fractured. ANC is the majority in Parliament so if they are fractured the parliament is fractured.
Don't forget everyone in parliament has dirt\so they don't want to step on anyone's toes. Zuma even made a threat in your precious parliament that he has dirt on everyone.

The courts found against parliament. It is not an impartial organisation. It's flawed by factionalism, corrupt members and loyalty.



Have you forgotten the travel scam in parliament where 37 members of parliament was found out stealing millions? None of them went to prison.
I think bottom line here is that the prez doesn't have absolute powers to remove the PP.
 

skimread

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Okay, We are doing well so far in terms of respecting the constitution as well as the executive respecting the other arms of state, I would very much like things to remain that way.
Are you serious? We do everything but uphold the constitution. Zuma flouted his oath that just to get all his corrupt loyalists out of government will take years. The only constitution they uphold to is enriching themselves. If there are no repercussions of not adhering to the constitution. Even the Public Protector was found in court to have lied under oath.

SA has laws but are not implementing it or holding those who should implement it accountable.

SA does not respect the constitution. Everyone has right to life but crime is out of control. Police aren't accountable.
SA has some of the strictest violence against women laws in the world but violence against women is some of the highest int the world.
SA has all these laws but corruption is out of control.
Government employees are hired not based on equality but based on loyalty.
SA has some of the best whistle-blower laws in the world but in reality whistle blowers are not protected.
SA is one of the easiest and cheapest countries to open a business yet we have some of the highest unemployment in the world
All these government departments and SOE have all these wonderful laws governing them but these laws are flouted
All the ANC led municipalities that don't get clean audits for years and years.

The list goes on. One can write pages.

Practice is very different to theory. Take your nose out of books and see what is going on in the real SA.
 
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skimread

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I think bottom line here is that the prez doesn't have absolute powers to remove the PP.
Yes parliament has to. That has been said over and over. But parliament is ANC. They have to be forced by the DA who have to go to court. Why doesn't the ANC led parliament not do their job? The president of the ANC is a lame duck for not giving them leadership but instead they are forced by opposition parties to take action by being taken to court.
 

thechamp

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Yes parliament has to. That has been said over and over. But parliament is ANC. They have to be forced by the DA who have to go to court. Why doesn't the ANC led parliament not do their job? The president of the ANC is a lame duck for not giving them leadership but instead they are forced by opposition parties to take action by being taken to court.
I think the problem is that you are refusing to acknowledge that your criticism of Ramaphosa in this topic is unfair.

Firstly you said he does not want to support the whistle blower, yet you cannot explain how exactly is he supposed to do that.

You accuse him of sitting and doing nothing to remove Mkhwebane, you cannot explain what exactly you expect him to do.

You accuse him of not giving an ANC led parliament direction, could you at least explain that one? What is he supposed to do to give the ANC MPs direction?
 

skimread

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I think the problem is that you are refusing to acknowledge that your criticism of Ramaphosa in this topic is unfair.

Firstly you said he does not want to support the whistle blower, yet you cannot explain how exactly is he supposed to do that.

You accuse him of sitting and doing nothing to remove Mkhwebane, you cannot explain what exactly you expect him to do.

You accuse him of not giving an ANC led parliament direction, could you at least explain that one? What is he supposed to do to give the ANC MPs direction?
Jeez you twist words. Quote me rather.


SA has laws to protect whistle blowers. The Protected Disclosures Act, Act 26 of 2000.Why aren't those laws being implemented?

You ask me what the president should do? How about all the promises he made when he got elected of tackling corruption. How about all the thousands caught with their fingers in the cookie jar being taken to court.

How about him ensuring the Protected Disclosures Act is enforced so that whistle-blowers don't have to fear for their jobs and their lives.

The country has laws and a constitution. Does these not matter? Why do these things have to drag on for years and years. As president in the speeches you are legally obliged to give to parliament at least tell them speed it up saying the delays are unacceptable. not just lip service but if members drag their feet then fire those members.

As president you must put pressure on law enforcement agencies to investigate corruption. As president you must get funds allocated if there isn't enough resource to do so.

You forget Ramaphosa is president of the ANC. Have you forgotten the ANC runs the country?

You are obsessed with the PP running the country. She is not the only person who can instruct law enforcement to open criminal cases. You have all these other law enforcement agencies who are supposed to do their job but under the Zuma regime stopped doing it. Has this become the status quo?

Why is it that the Democratic Alliance have to go to court? Why can't the ANC go to court? Who gives leadership to the ANC? Who can't give leadership to the ANC because of factionalism?
 

TysonRoux

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You ask me what the president should do? How about all the promises he made when he got elected of tackling corruption. How about all the thousands caught with their fingers in the cookie jar being taken to court.
Therein lies the problem, who does he make these promises to - who elects the president in this country, the corrupt cronies, so it was more a battle between them, than voter choice.
Even though voter selection might not be any better considering the voters were quite happy with snollygoster Zupta for a long while, with all his illegal activities being broadcast.
 

ponder

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A key official confirms aspects of a whistleblower’s shock claims of improper conduct by Busisiwe Mkhwebane, and sheds new light on her relationship with the spy agency.
A senior State Security Agency (SSA) official has confirmed pivotal details of a whistleblower’s account over the conduct of Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane during two investigations by her office, first reported by News24 and amaBhungane on Sunday.

James Ramabulana, a long-serving senior State Security Agency (SSA) official, confirmed that he was present at both SSA meetings with Mkhwebane surrounding her so-called CIEX investigation into ABSA Bank and the South African Reserve Bank.

The whistleblower claimed in an affidavit that another SSA official, Maiendra “Mai” Moodley, had handed Mkhwebane a typed note containing the wording for a remedial action included in her final CIEX report — raising questions over the SSA’s involvement in a clandestine effort to shift the mandate and oversight of the central bank under the cloak of a Public Protector report.

Ramabulana, in a written response to questions, was mum on this aspect, although he was in the room when the note was handed over during the second meeting with Mkhwebane.6


However, he supported other key elements of the whistleblower’s version including partial confirmation that Moodley was introduced as an “economist” — although his expertise is in information technology security.

Mystery meetings

Ramabulana is a long-serving intelligence official. He is understood to have occupied positions within the domestic intelligence sphere for nearly two decades.

Ramabulana confirmed he attended both meetings with Mkhwebane and her investigators — on 3 May and 6 June 2017, just weeks before Mkhwebane released her final report. He said Mkhwebane had formally requested, in writing, a meeting with the state security minister and the director-general, at the time David Mahlobo and Arthur Fraser.

“They [Mahlobo and Fraser] decided to go with me to the meeting because I was familiar with matters that were to form part of the discussions. The two of them had not dealt with the matters in question,” Ramabulana said.

The Public Protector’s CIEX report centred around a complaint by Paul Hofmann of Accountability Now, who asked in 2010 for an investigation into whether government had failed to act on a report by British investigations firm CIEX over the SARB’s apartheid-era bailout of Bankorp, a bank that was later bought by ABSA.

The agreement with CIEX had been signed by the former South African Secret Service (SASS) boss Billy Masetlha. It is understood that Masetlha was interviewed by Mkhwebane’s predecessor, Thuli Madonsela, but the transcription and audio recording for that interview went missing, necessitating Mkhwebane’s team to seek a new response from the SSA.

In the final report, no mention is made of any written submission from the SSA, and neither is there a reference to any interview with SSA officials.

The whistleblower revealed that Mkhwebane instructed her senior investigator who was present at both meetings, Tebogo Kekana, not to record or take notes, which the whistleblower found “odd”.
 

TysonRoux

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All the additional incriminating evidence coming to light, but will this lead to the Zupta mattress' prosecution, seeing as F-all has happened with the mountains of evidence already in hand.

I can see the new drive for "reconciliation" being used to wipe the slate clean for these dirty Zuptoids.
 

TysonRoux

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Saboteur-in-chief – Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane: Meng Xi goes Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

By the end of 2019, reformers are struggling; State Capture and the fightback seemingly have the upper hand. Rolling and national blackouts symbolised a bigger malaise as the presidency of Cyril Ramaphosa lost momentum. Who were the saboteurs and who fought in the frontlines of reform? In this series, we profile the 2019 SA People of the Year Winners: Saboteurs and the 2019 SA People of the Year runners-up: The Fixers.

 

Sneeky

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Such an embarrassment and disappointment to our society as a whole.
History will not forget.

My God!
In her response to Baloyi, Mkhwebane reveals how she understands the role of a public protector as a player in a game.

“[O]ne of the key and inherent requirements of running the office of the public protector is to devise strategies to counteract the guaranteed games played by very powerful people and institutions under investigation to frustrate the work of the public protector at every twist and turn…”. In other words, for her, the office is not about protecting the public, but is instead part of a giant chess game. Zuma’s favourite game is chess.
 
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Gordon_R

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Why is it only leaked now?
Detailed followup article. The whistleblower was victimised by an internal investigation, and his laptop seized to prevent disclosure. When it was later returned, documents had been erased, but were restored from a backup. Lengthy read, but important insights into the PP office:
 

Gordon_R

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She keeps on losing cases:
In August 2019, the court handed down the scathing judgment, declaring that Mkhwebane had failed the people of South Africa in the way she dealt with the investigation.

It set aside Mkhwebane's report on the Vrede dairy project, declaring it "unlawful, unconstitutional and invalid".

Judge Ronel Tolmay ordered the Public Protector, in her official capacity, to pay 85% of the DA's costs on an attorney scale and 85% of Casac's costs.
 

Turbomouse

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Are you serious? We do everything but uphold the constitution. Zuma flouted his oath that just to get all his corrupt loyalists out of government will take years. The only constitution they uphold to is enriching themselves. If there are no repercussions of not adhering to the constitution. Even the Public Protector was found in court to have lied under oath.

SA has laws but are not implementing it or holding those who should implement it accountable.

SA does not respect the constitution. Everyone has right to life but crime is out of control. Police aren't accountable.
SA has some of the strictest violence against women laws in the world but violence against women is some of the highest int the world.
SA has all these laws but corruption is out of control.
Government employees are hired not based on equality but based on loyalty.
SA has some of the best whistle-blower laws in the world but in reality whistle blowers are not protected.
SA is one of the easiest and cheapest countries to open a business yet we have some of the highest unemployment in the world
All these government departments and SOE have all these wonderful laws governing them but these laws are flouted
All the ANC led municipalities that don't get clean audits for years and years.

The list goes on. One can write pages.

Practice is very different to theory. Take your nose out of books and see what is going on in the real SA.
Ramaphosa said in the beginning of the lockdown, that if we are unhappy, we have a right to approach the courts. In the recent court judgements, we can see how well greased they have the judiciary.
 

thechamp

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Feb 26, 2011
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27,980
Ramaphosa said in the beginning of the lockdown, that if we are unhappy, we have a right to approach the courts. In the recent court judgements, we can see how well greased they have the judiciary.
You mean in all judgements where things did not go your way?
 
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