Historical evidence for the resurrection of Christ

mancombseepgood

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Yes as a matter of fact. I grew up in a Christian household so I'd probably have a better clue than you would on this particular subject.
Would you really like me to hazard a guess as to why you chose to believe in J3sus?
Ok... so you believe in Christ? Or did you just contradict your theory?
 

mancombseepgood

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No. Atheism is mans natural state. The concept of god evolved from early animist ideas. You don't have to be taught atheism.

I would be opposed to people telling children that there is no god as fact anyway. That would certainly be indoctrination.
I wouldn't call it atheism... seperation from God is man's natural state because of sin.
 

Nick333

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Ok... so you believe in Christ? Or did you just contradict your theory?
There's your reason for settling for the idea of chri3t when it was presented to you when you were searching for meaning to your empty existence:

You are not very good at critical thought.

What I said was that when one who is raised in a christian home is presented with the choice of accepting christianity as there lifestyle, the existence of god and the divinity of chri3t are not necessarily deciding factors.
 

Nick333

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Out of interest - what do you believe makes them Christian?
Yep all those animist tribes in the amazon are so sinful and unhappy as a result.

That someone would hear a concept like original sin then not study the evolution of human culture to find out were an obviously analogous story has its analogue in reality is beyond me.
 
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Not Really Difficult...

And you know... from personal experience?
I think you have no clue.
I grew up in an atheistic household...
why did I believe in Christ then?
the holy spirit..he convicted you of your sin, convinced you that you are a sinner and needed christ...and once you have repented and given you life to christ you are a child of god...a king's kid amen!

Nothing to do with doctrines really...
 
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No. Atheism is mans natural state. The concept of god evolved from early animist ideas. You don't have to be taught atheism.

I would be opposed to people telling children that there is no god as fact anyway. That would certainly be indoctrination.
If atheism was indeed mankind's natural state where did the thoughts of gods come from?

For me to believe a statement like that you will have to prove it. In every nation in this world there are gods. The Living god and idols are indeed more natural to me than atheism...
 
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I wouldn't call it atheism... seperation from God is man's natural state because of sin.
YES, i agree mankind's natural state is separation from god due to sin.

Look at this christ death on the cross taking the world's sin on thereby redeeming creation...The Father looked away from his Son , when he looked back he saw the world without sin but through christ.

The Father looks at the world through christ and see the world as if without sin. The choice is mankind's if we are going to accept the gift of the cross or not, that is our choice...
 

Nick333

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick333 View Post
No. Atheism is mans natural state. The concept of god evolved from early animist ideas. You don't have to be taught atheism.

I would be opposed to people telling children that there is no god as fact anyway. That would certainly be indoctrination.

If atheism was indeed mankind's natural state where did the thoughts of gods come from?

For me to believe a statement like that you will have to prove it. In every nation in this world there are gods. The Living god and idols are indeed more natural to me than atheism...
What is it about me that thinks and feels? Spirit -> everything must have a spirit -> powerful things must be more powerful spirits -> powerful spirits must have a personality like me -> powerful spirits are gods -> there must be a most powerfullest god.

And of course once you have spirits, gods and god you have the reasons/reason for every thing you can't explain.

dodo said:
God created the world 6000 years ago. Surviving stone-age peoples somehow descended from Adam and Eve in the ensuing 300 generations and forgot about god and began believing in spirits instead.
 

Kalvaer

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What I said was that when one who is raised in a christian home is presented with the choice of accepting christianity as there lifestyle, the existence of god and the divinity of chri3t are not necessarily deciding factors.
My Father is a Athiest... I'm now a Catholic after being an Athiest myself for many eyars... where do I fit into all this :)

As to proving that Jesus was alive.. here is another quote from a website:
(Here is also another page explaining many things asked here and on other threads in this forum: http://www.everystudent.com/menus/forum.html)

Q: "Are there any historical writings, other than the Bible, that prove that Jesus ever really lived?"

A: Yes. Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) was considered the greatest historian of ancient Rome. He wrote of Nero who "punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus [Christ], the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originiated, but through the city of Rome also."1

Also, Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian, (A.D. 38-100+) wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities, saying that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, that Jesus was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected.2

The existence of Jesus Christ is recorded not only by Josephus and Tacitus, but also by ancient writers such as Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. And from the Jewish Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."3

Thus, historians both favorable and unfavorable regarding Jesus did write about him. Also there were many historical writings about the early Christians.

(1) Annals XV, 44 as quoted in The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. See this book for other historical sources.
(2) Noted in Jesus Under Fire by Michael J. Wilkins and J. P. Moreland, Zondervan Publishing.
(3) Ibid.
 
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My Father is a Athiest... I'm now a Catholic after being an Athiest myself for many eyars... where do I fit into all this :)

As to proving that Jesus was alive.. here is another quote from a website:
(Here is also another page explaining many things asked here and on other threads in this forum: http://www.everystudent.com/menus/forum.html)
KALVEAR, Your father were an atheist,will you also relay the follwing...

Your mother what was her believes?
Then a bit more personal, how did dad treat mom?
How did mom treat dad? and lastly how did dad treat you?
If you don't mind i will love to know...
 

Kalvaer

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You asked... LOL dont know what relevence it has but here it is.. would like to know what you actually thought it would be.

My father wasn't always an Athiest.. He become one later due to circumstance. More because I believe that he couldn't believe in God with what had happened to him (which is usually the case is it not, not being able to understand how God can do that to you, when you in fact did it to yourself but cant see that) He was actually a deacon at the Baptist church at one time, but before I could remember

My mother is a Christian and a baptist (she used to be a member of the Salvation Army before marrying my Father), but never forced anything on us because of my Father, I grew up in a void of sorts, given the choice to take my own path.

My Sister became a "bible basher" and Joined the "Assemble of God" and I turned to the athiesm. It was only in the last two years that I started doing a lot of research and soul searching, and one day it hit me.. can't even begin to explain it but anyway.. I then last year converted and become a Catholic

As to my parents.. My Mother and Father still love each other and are together still after 35 years. My Father always treated and still does my Mother with respect and love, and my Mother is the same to him. We were the typical family growing up that you would see on a TV sitcom.

As to how he treated me, My Father to me.. Well he is my "best friend". I might not agree with what he believes but it is his choice

My whole family actually work together, my Mother, Father, Sister, and Brother-in-law...

Not what you would of thought would you with all the different beliefs right :)
 

Nick333

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... your household... what makes you think your household was Christian? What makes them Christian?
I've avoided answering your question till now for the following reasons:

I can tell when I'm being set up for what someone thinks will be a coup de grace. While I'm prepared to allow you to pass judgement on me, I'm not prepared to allow you to make judgements on my family that you are not qualified to make.

Suffice it to say I believe a christian household is one where the existence of god and the divinity of christ is believed as fact. Whether or not you believe that to be a christian household, it is sufficient to support my previous arguments.
 

Nick333

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My Father is a Athiest... I'm now a Catholic after being an Athiest myself for many eyars... where do I fit into all this :)
You're not really relevant to the topic. Think about that a bit before you jump back into the fray.;) No one ever claimed you couldn't be converted without having being raised as a christian. If that were true there would be far fewer christians around today.

As to proving that Jesus was alive.. here is another quote from a website:
(Here is also another page explaining many things asked here and on other threads in this forum: http://www.everystudent.com/menus/forum.html)
The credibility of those texts have already been debated on more than one occassion.

Josephus was a Jew not a Christian, if he believed that Christ was the messiah why was he not a christian?
 

Kalvaer

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You're not really relevant to the topic. Think about that a bit before you jump back into the fray.;) No one ever claimed you couldn't be converted without having being raised as a christian. If that were true there would be far fewer christians around today.
Sorry, my reasoning for saying what I did was that I wasn't raised to be what I am now.
Way to often I have seen many people here use the argument that you are christain because "your parents made you one and you are too blind to see it", Or on the otherside that "It was forced on me and nobody forces anything on me.. I have the right to choose". In almost all these discussion people tend to generalise. My reasoning for my post was to show that not everything is as it may seem.

Josephus was a Jew not a Christian, if he believed that Christ was the messiah why was he not a christian?
I do believe the point there is that even though Josephus was a Jew and believed that Jesus was not the child spoken about in Jewish Prohecy as per Isaiah, He still admits to his existance. Therefore proving that even those who didn't think that Christ was who he said he was, he was still alive at the said time and did the things that was said about him, Of couse what you believe with regards to how he did the things he did is another matter, the point is others admitted to his existance and to his deeds.. even those opposing him
 
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